Hello and welcome to the Much Love Podcast.

Today it is my privilege and my honor to host Classic Reinvention.

For those of you who do not know Classic, he is the inquisitive outsider.

Be sure to check out his page on LinkedIn, which I'll include in the video comments, and also his website, tioutsider.com Classic.

0:31

Welcome to the show.

Thanks for joining.

Oh, thank you, man.

Thank you for having.

Always looking forward to the opportunity to talk.

Absolutely.

For people who haven't met you yet, or people who don't have the privilege of following you on LinkedIn to this point, talk to them really quickly on what it is that you do and and why you're such a unique guy on the social media.

0:53

Yeah, so it's it's media around education.

At the end of the day.

We just started leaning more into startups like the last couple years, and my goal is to bring what I feel as though is a much needed energy to a lot of startup storytelling.

1:11

I feel like at times it's cool or is like business as usual, and it doesn't really match the excitement of the founders of what they've just launched.

And so I try to give it that that boost needed so that way people can care enough to want to investigate more.

1:29

And, you know, it's playing off of my curiosity in general and just loving how things work and the people behind the processes and like what drove them there.

And all the little, all the little variables that like change along the way to kind of get them to where they are now.

1:49

And just figuring out the best ways to articulate that to people that are looking for different things to resonate with different forms of reference for their own endeavors.

I can confidently say nobody is doing a good enough job as you are in this space.

So you are.

2:04

You're definitely the leader when it comes to what you do.

There's nobody quite like you doing it.

How did you make the leap from working in?

I know before you were at WE Funder, you've done a few other things, but from working in the industry and getting to kind of dabble with this to really full time being this inquisitive outsider.

2:24

Yeah, it's well something I wanted to do because I felt like, well, I always tell a founder, like nobody can tell your story better than you.

So like even when I'm doing work for people is not so that I can tell your stories at the end of time just so I can set you up well enough for you to then perform from there.

2:44

And so I felt like I needed to do it for myself as well.

And I have been doing it for a bit before I got into the industry.

Being inside of the industry helped me realize that, like there's still a lot of work that needs to be done, still a lot of piloting because you can't plan for something you never experienced.

3:01

So you tell folks about how they should do things, how they should go about it, and it's like can't really see it, but you how can you expect them to when they're, you know, they're, they are who they are.

They do what they do.

And so I was like, all right, well, let me build this brand out and just continue to create eight more examples of what's possible.

3:20

And so that way now when I presented to somebody, now I can see myself in it.

I see how it works.

I feel it.

I see how everybody else responds.

And now it's like, all right, I get it.

I didn't have to like guess or or assume with the limited knowledge I may have in this area.

3:38

And so that's been like I I feel like I've done it enough now where like the goal is to hopefully attach to a larger group that feeds the ecosystem and and be like, hey man, let me just be the media channel for you that can, you know, possibly create a secondary service vertical for you.

3:59

But then also to just, you know, build a lot of awareness around a lot of what you've been doing to help the industry.

So I could show them even more.

How much of you attaches creativity to something tangible, something that people can buy into, the better?

You can understand the return on that investment.

4:15

Sure.

The video I resonated with most recently was with Everett Taylor, current CEOI think he's at Kickstarter now.

I've been following him for a bit.

He spoke at an event I was at in person almost half a decade ago and he's just, he's been on my radar for a while.

4:32

So seeing your video is just incredible.

And then I saw him share the video.

What What's the feedback typically like from the founders, You're profiling or these businesses?

Super appreciative as a as somebody building something, you're just in your silo, you're just working and it seems like after a while it becomes a normalcy just like the grind and not being seen during the grind because you're in your office, you're at your home or wherever the case may be.

5:02

Just you know just working and servicing other people not really thinking about yourself in the midst of that.

That's why there's a lot of mental health issues and different things because you just, you know you you you let yourself kind of like fall to the wayside in pursuit of this dream and and so when somebody comes across and not only are they talking about what you're working on and they're talking about you but it's in a way where like man I didn't even feel that way about myself today or whatever the case may be it like it it it lights you up.

5:38

And so I have yet to come across a founder that has actually seen the piece.

Sometimes they see it sometimes they don't see it.

But a large percentage of them that do are blown away.

I'm very thankful.

5:55

And it creates an opportunity to build a rapport worked on while you know adding even more cosign to what it is that I'm doing and creating more validation or you know just the philosophy around it.

Like it's it's as simple as you say nice things about people and they'll run and they'll they'll say thank you and they'll tell other folks and and show them look at this, you know look what this user did.

6:20

I didn't ask for this.

I didn't know I needed it, but I appreciate it.

And by adding this added step of quality to it, because of the presentation, because of the energy, because of the word usage, I've had a couple of founders say like, man, you pitched it better than me.

6:39

And it it creates, it creates like a really cool tool for your company.

But then also just a reminder that you you've been doing a great job and somebody sees it, which helps.

Yeah, well, a lot of founders need to hear that.

6:56

The Hey, I see you.

It's lonely.

I remember building my first business, just the times where it would be Friday night after a really long week and I just got nothing left in the tank.

And that that just feeling of like, gosh, like when?

7:16

When will it get better, when will it get easier, when will?

When will I get the recognition or whatever it is I'm looking for or the fulfilment I'm hoping to find in the pursuit of whatever I'm pursuing?

And what I found is that as a founder, I had to shift my mindset to there is no end.

7:36

It's can I create the lifestyle where I'm enjoying every moment or as much of it today and here and now.

And I think what you're doing is almost like giving a rocket boost to somebody that's like, hey, there's people who see me and appreciate me, and maybe I give them a little bit of reinvigoration so they fall back in love with what they're doing.

7:55

Yes, yes.

That's what I'm super hoping for the like.

So I call them all rock stars and I thank them for the country.

They say thank you know, thank you, I say no thank you for doing the work and creating the inspiration.

So you can like do this because it's needed more and more folks need positive points of reference, everybody.

8:16

There's a lot of people that have these dreams and these goals.

They don't know where to start.

And your story is actually the start for a lot of people that are that are in your shoes, that can relate to where you came from, the journey you're on and the thing you're trying to build and the people you want to serve.

And so I just want to get those stories out there.

8:35

But then also I want to make sure that you keep putting that story out there because it's it's important for you to win in any shape or form, whether it was massive or, you know, a little bit based on whatever success looks like to you.

It's it's important for other people to see that it is possible doing things in a way unique to themselves.

8:57

Well, and what's also unique is just how legendary your production quality is.

Like right now you and I are chatting on Zoom.

I've got a long way to go when it comes to the production quality of my my endeavor.

The thing that just finally got me today is like I I don't mirror my video, 'cause I like the way the background looks.

9:16

But while I'm staring at you, it looks like I'm looking away from you.

And that's such a minor detail that bothers me as a consumer.

But I'm a big believer of start with where you're at and grow your production quality.

Meanwhile, I'm looking at my other screen, looking at your website, I see a video that you've got on there.

9:34

You have incredible set work, incredible color art, Like the creative aesthetic you've cultivated is really that of like an 8 or 9 figure luxury brand.

But you're doing it as a solopreneur essentially.

Like how did you get to this space in terms, I mean obviously you can pay for school but you can't buy class.

9:51

You know, talk to me about what your process to getting this polished level products been like and and you know some of your your own taste aesthetic interests.

Yeah, a lot of lots and lots of practice in the in the early days.

So the, you know, when I when I first wanted to get into production, you look at the people around you and it's like, oh, that guy got paid 30K for this.

10:14

I got paid 100K for this, but they went to school for it, they got the network, they got the friends, and so that's why they're able to pull that off.

Whereas though someone like me who didn't have the background, the first thing they do is go towards your your experience and whatnot.

10:30

I didn't have any of that.

And so it was like, if I am going to do a project, it's probably going to be a lot less, but I also want to make sure I can take something out of it because when those people do those larger projects, a lot of that budget goes towards making the project happen.

10:45

Margins actually aren't that amazing.

So I can't like take on a project and maybe only get $1000 or $5000 in the beginning and then have to spend that all on some sort of, like, cool equipment.

So invested in my own equipment, started realizing that nobody's going to the movies and they're like, oh man, I heard they shot this with a red.

11:13

No, they're going there because of a specific actor the story presentation of it all and when you start to lean into that more and focus on on on that you realize that the IT doesn't it's just as long as it looks and sounds good and you know it comes across well is is nice quality on that end.

11:32

A lot of people will look past a lot of things like Blair Witch Project say like a $10,000 movie go off and make hundreds of millions of dollars.

Why?

Because of, you know, playing in limitations.

And one of the the earlier books I read was Robert Rodriguez, Rebel Without a Crew.

11:52

And it was just constantly talking about like, as soon as you start spending money, you can't stop.

So the first thing you should be doing is kind of leaning into the resources that you already have access to and kind of building your concepts and things around that.

And so I'm a firm believer of if you think you have more than enough, you're right.

12:13

If you don't think you have enough, you're also right.

And so whichever way you decide to lean is the side that like, starts to amplify even more and start so by feeling like I constantly have more than enough.

And it's like, all right, I have this phone.

12:29

These phones nowadays shoot amazing.

In fact, there's like examples of like phones passing the sniff test on so many large levels.

There's a movie called Tangerine that actually made it into Sundance.

One sense Sundance got picked up by Magnolia Pictures went off and make a A bunch of money was in theaters shot on an iPhone with like a, you know, I think the only thing they really spend money on was like a dope sound system because they were like running around Los Angeles for like super simple 100 maybe maybe 100 grand in total type of situation for a major motion picture.

13:04

And so it took a lot of those examples and applied it to this.

And it was like, all right, you have this theater background.

You go to do a bunch of improv and you realize it's just like just amplifying the things that are around you.

13:20

And so spend a lot of time in, like thrift shops, work for a bunch of thrift shops, 'cause they're like filmmaker candy stores.

And when you aren't worried about all of that, then you can focus on the craft more.

It's like Shakespeare's reading a book called Real Artist Don't Starve.

13:39

And him and the other writers sort of invested in their own theater.

You know, they got the land, they had the building, a little wooden building, built it up.

But having that consistent access allowed him to constantly work on his craft versus, like sparingly.

13:56

So the same thing with me when I started to lean more so into my phone, leaning more so into like a mobile audio kit, probably like in total like 500 bucks or something like that.

It was like, man, now that I have it, I can do it every day.

14:12

And so just worked at it every day, invited people, shot short films and got better and better with being in front of the camera and delivering the message.

Then after a while, it just became like muscle memory where like I could literally drop over a dime, just like, you know, make it happen.

14:28

Because you realize it's all about the writing and the delivery of it at the end of the day.

So I'm not doing anything special.

I'm sitting in my living room.

I'm capturing it.

Well, I have a good idea of of how I want to set the like the the the setup.

14:46

Big on set design, big on editing.

I've done a lot of like editing work, just like just 'cause you know you want to toy around with filters, you want to pull buttons all the way over and see what that looks like, pull all the way back, see what that looks like.

15:01

And after a while you start to lean more and more into like, these are the areas that I like, and you start to build your own presets.

But this is your unique look now, your unique take on things.

And now I just carried into everything but it.

It's it's been a process.

15:17

I I brought my first camera in 2012 and it's just been an ongoing 2017 is when I decided to put the camera on myself more building out like, you know, like little like sketch shows and different things like that.

And then it wasn't until 2020 when I got introduced to tech.

15:38

And so it's just like the brand.

That's that's what I am.

Curious crap.

I'm just like learning these different things.

It opens up the growth mindset.

You now realize there's a whole nother world is possible.

So it's like, all right, well how much of that can we tackle?

And then, you know, learn a new thing and be exposed some more and then keep climbing, keep going up.

15:58

Especially being like this unique presentation that in the beginning people were saying no to because they didn't see it.

They don't know how it works.

They didn't want to take a chance.

It's no experimentation.

Had to build the pilots had to show them this is how it works by capturing the people that they wanted anyway, the the audience.

16:21

And you become like so kind of feels like the the people's champs at times.

In a way.

The my wife used to call me your favorite artist, favorite artist was always in the background somehow somebody was always like inquiring or I was consulting or developing in some way shape or form.

16:44

And so now that I am doing it full time for myself, it just helps to put it on display even more and you know, creates that that real differentiator.

Whereas though people are just like focusing on content and getting out as much as of it as possible, I'm really focusing on the subject and making sure that it's like well researched and making sure that when I deliver this they feel so good that they want to share it with everybody because then that's the the the marketing hack in it.

17:12

Yeah, I love it.

So there's two things you said there that I really keyed into.

The first one was picked up the camera in 2012, turned it on yourself in 2017 or 2018.

So that idea of, you know, when I started my marketing company, it was because I wanted to start a music blog.

It's the world I was around.

17:29

I was working in PR and events and specifically in the hip hop space in Chicago.

And the blog era was really meaningful to me and I wanted to contribute to it.

But what I ended up doing was creating projects for clients right away.

So this podcast is almost the first time I've started putting the camera on my own interests and really sharing what matters to me, not from a perspective of monetization, but just pursuing what I find passionate.

17:55

So I love hearing that in your journey, But then also the piece about the content being really well researched, well written and put out as something that the person you're talking about is going to be really appreciative of, want to share it and want to be a part of the marketing.

18:11

I think that part's critical.

What kind of clicked for you to make that part of your strategy?

Cause a lot of people just seem to be doing noise, noise, noise, noise and I've I've really been turned off by that the last five years.

You seem to have a really healthy relationship.

I mean, talk to me about how you got there.

18:28

Yeah, it was the first tech project when I was working with a friend, Camille Terry.

She started a company called Charger Help and she reached out and she was like, I need to redo my curriculum for the EV field technicians and because all the media is just over and white guys talking about electric cars and it doesn't, it doesn't hold any attention.

18:53

So if you said on one hand maybe it becomes you, maybe we build something that is more engaging and if you want to pay attention during during this training.

But then on the flip side, when we put it out into the world, maybe more people want to contribute because now they feel like the space is for them.

19:15

Whereas though before it felt more like you were either talking over our heads or you weren't talking to us at all, the information never made it to us.

We did not know that we could contribute by working these jobs, being a part of programs, benefiting from resources in our daily lives in general.

19:31

And so I, I took that as like a really dope opportunity to kind of like shift the space.

Because then I started looking into tech content more.

I started looking into startups and like what they were pushing out internally.

19:48

And it was like, man, there's a lot of room here for somebody that could take what they do and present it in a more mainstream way.

And not just for the people that actually get the technical side, but the people that could, you know, eventually get a technical side, but then also understand it enough to like.

20:08

Want to be a user, apply it and tell other folks about it.

And that a lot of that it was easy to make that transition because I was always a perspective junkie.

Like I felt like there were a million different ways to look at one thing and so you should be trying to understand as many perspectives around it as possible.

20:28

So that way you can you know you can kind of like cross context.

That's what makes it fun.

It's like the battle rap of it all where it's like the there's this one word has multiple meanings.

And so we switch the context of it.

By you watching it, you already have this one understanding of it.

20:46

And that wild moment is, man, I didn't think about it like that.

I didn't consider it like that.

How the heck did they tie it into that that thing that I remember that I hadn't thought about in like forever?

And now it's stuck in your brain because of this, this moment that like you thought you were prepared for but you weren't.

21:04

And and it's like, I like this.

I don't know why I like this.

And it's just because it it feels genuine, like it feels real.

It feels like the person on the other side actually cares about the information that they're delivering.

These kind of like fall under the spell of that.

21:20

And so just having that new mission, it was like, how many people can I affect with this?

And so in order to affect them, I have to start researching them.

I have to really, like, dig into those things and make it work, make it work.

21:36

I have to understand it.

And then I have to simplify it for everybody else because it's going to be a lot of folks that are completely new to this.

Like, I didn't know anything about this before I got that project.

And so it has to be, it has to not feel overwhelming through somebody brand new that you're presenting it to.

21:56

They have to.

My 3 steps are inspiration aspiration application.

Like you have to discover it and now know that it's possible, but then you have to be able to see yourself inside of it to know that it's possible for you.

And you need to be given the steps.

22:12

You need to know where to start.

You know how, you know what tools you can use so you can reach out to for mentorship.

You know all these things are available to kind of get you where you need to go.

Because now it's not a dream anymore.

Now now I can actually see this being possible for myself and now more inclined to like actually push forward on this, on this new goal of mines.

22:36

And so it's creating more opportunity around what's possible.

I call it a pipeline of possibilities.

And that was very intriguing to me because I'm not, I don't, I don't think I'm ever have like all the market share.

But you don't have to just want a percentage of it, just want like I I feel like I represent this small group of people in a room that wish there was something else to do.

22:58

We're only here because we think this is the best of it and it's the only thing that was available.

But if somebody were to introduce an alternative like a like a a safe space where I could be myself and not be judged because the whole point of that room is being myself, then I probably will hop on that.

23:14

And that's what I feel like I'm seeing more and more.

Whereas a lot of people that are like, oh, I didn't know we could do it like this or oh, I didn't know that I could be talked about like this, presented like this, or I didn't even think about my product like that myself.

And it it, it, it's a lot of room for.

23:35

It's a lot of room for openness, a lot of room for discovery, not just of product, but within yourself.

Because you didn't know, again, you didn't know that that was possible.

Even even with your own product.

You didn't know that it was possible to get this group of people to buy into that you didn't know that you could, you know, cross promote in that manner.

23:57

You didn't know that these potential that these partners were possible because of this changing context in this new presentation.

And so it opens up on both sides.

It isn't just like a black or white thing, it's a psychographic.

It's anybody in between with, you know, shared interests.

24:14

And that's the that's how you establish community.

And so that's why I I made that pivot and and it has been you know somewhat successful.

We're still working at it.

We're still building it out.

24:29

I'm still understanding it myself.

I've just gotten to the point where I can literally like write out my process and and kind of like put different pillars around it that kind of make it proprietary on my end and and so yeah, it's it's exciting, dude.

24:47

It's it's exciting every time one works because I don't know, I don't know, once I put it out, if it's going to hit, I don't know if the person's ever going to see it.

I don't know what's going to happen on the other side.

I'm just hoping that they enjoy it and then when you get the, you know, the video goes out and then you know Everett's in the, you know, commenting and in Adm it's like, hey man, can I get that video?

25:13

I would love to put it out on, you know, XY and Z.

It's like, heck yeah.

Like well, how many people could say that that happened like a one-on-one like that on a, on a, on a drop.

And so it's it's cool to continue to discover it because it's a lot of, it's a lot of different things happening at once that people used to do individually.

25:37

Like this company handles that, this company handles that.

But I'm thinking about it all at the point of conception, and so it's still a lot to grasp.

On the other side, I'm still trying to figure out the best way to sell it, dumb myself down.

So it's not like, oh, that guy just makes cool videos.

25:55

It's like, Nah, there's a whole science to this to make this happen.

That, and that's the research aspect, though.

That's why I say it's a research company more than like a content company.

And yeah, just, you know, still figuring it out, but it's growing more and more because of the advocates, the people that we have affected that we want to see is when.

26:19

Well, with your process, you talked about your you're creating the the columns around it you're creating, you're finally defining the process from a creative perspective.

You talked about some of the little things you do.

So somebody likes it and doesn't necessarily know why they like it, but they just resonate with it immediately.

26:37

I think of some of the greats like Jay-Z, when he put out 444, he had put out a playlist on title for probably three or four months prior to that even came out.

I think it was like a songs for struggle or something like that, that a lot of those songs he sampled in his album.

26:56

So there, when his album comes out, I'm listening to it and I'm vibing with the production from the first listen because he's already trained me for the past several months, like the music before it even came out.

And then I'm able to dig into the the words.

And by the 3rd, 4th, 5th, listen, I go, yeah, the people who might have gotten into Jay-Z because of reasonable doubt or, you know, people who were a big fan of what he did on the Blueprint, This might be totally, you know, left field, but what is this stuff?

27:26

But if you've been following his progression from an artist to a businessman to an influencer of culture, to somebody who's standing for more in the country and is trying to use his position in a really unique way, you can find it to be an instant classic of a project and almost a pioneering, defining moment of where hip hop is going for an adult community.

27:51

So I say, all that to say, I love your approach to research in that you're trying to find a way to make the art resonate at a deep, guttural level.

You have such a attention to the craft.

This isn't just some LinkedIn exploitative strategy to improve your bottom line.

28:09

If anything, you're trying to build the business around the artistry, and that's not something you really see often in the social media creator space.

It's usually I've got some sort of hustle and I'm just trying to promote the hustle for you.

It seems to be more of a passion and a love that you're going to build the business around which you don't see every day.

28:29

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, it's not work for me.

It's it's one of those things where I was going to do it anyway and that's, I feel like that's what our it's supposed to be.

And then when you get paid, it's like, oh, that's a happy surprise.

But you know you still have to be like very intentional about it because there's always a chance that the folks don't get it and and and no one wants to pay for it but can't let that be the driving force.

28:54

Like I yeah, my thing is right product, right wrong audience until it's the right audience.

And then you know just keep looking.

We keep digging.

We find those folks that it that it does resonate with.

And that's why I'm so big on one, on ones and like being more targeted versus like chasing mass audiences because you want quality in the numbers.

29:16

I want to be able to say that I know all the folks.

I want to be able to say that like I can attach like extra dollar amount to all the folks.

I want to be able to say that like these four videos went out, this much came back as far as like inquiries, discovery calls, actual money relationship partnerships, project opportunities, whatever the case may be.

29:40

And it becomes like even down to like re shares like hey this went out and CEO Kickstarter hopped on it.

Re share the, you know the founder of this company Arlen Hamilton.

Like it's it's been we funder that's how I got into we funder.

29:58

Like that I can I can name like the the 2-3 videos beforehand that actually made that happen.

And so it's being very focused, very intentional and going after what you want because large numbers don't, large numbers don't really mean anything, especially if a lot of people are just there to window shop.

30:18

Just watch.

Not to say that's a bad thing, but at the end of the day, we're trying to prove that what we are producing, developing is it has a value to it.

Otherwise you you end up like most artists were just like, hey man, I'm trying to get paid XY and Z for this and somebody's like, well, how do I get my money back?

30:37

And so they use that as an excuse to like downplay an artist's contribution.

And so that's why it's really important to like constantly figure out those ways to attach it to those tangible things.

So that way you can see the movement that that happened, having a referral code, having whatever the case may be a click through rate.

30:59

You know there's all those different things that they can help out big time.

But like you just have to consider it and you have to write it in.

That's the the, the genius in it product placement.

So I just wrote down a note.

Sometimes happens when I'm having a conversation.

31:16

I'm just like, I got to capture.

It's got to get down onto the piece of paper.

I can't trust my memory or that when I come back I'll leave the same way about it.

Side note, before you can get into what I wrote, you fan of Rick Rubin at all.

Yeah.

So I'm listening to his audio book or his book, but I'm listening on audio right now.

31:34

And he talks about this idea of or concept of ideas being very similar to dreams, where you know, you wake up if you try really hard to think about your dream.

And if you practice and practice and practice, you could write them down and create a journal and eventually get really good at remembering your dreams.

But most of them forget the same thing with ideas.

31:52

Ideas are these things that when we're clear and we're in alignment, we can get tapped into these ideas.

And sometimes they happen in in opportune times.

Like I want to be locked in, fully committed to you.

And now this idea happened, so got to write down at least the the nuts of it.

But one of the things I've been working on since launching Nate Ventures is how do I create a scalable way of me being in the world organically and tying together all the pieces that I think can make an impact for somebody and growing and scaling their business and and achieving their dreams.

32:25

And one thing you said that stood out is this one to one content amplification.

I think that from a business perspective that becomes your niche of when somebody needs to reach somebody, you are the one who can get that person's attention extremely effectively and probably most effective of anyone I've ever seen that one of the questions I asked all of my guests is like who would you love to talk to or connect to and maybe we can amplify it within our our platform And my brain works so well around how do you monetize something I sometimes lose.

32:57

How do you monetize the artistry?

I feel like you could be an excellent connective tissue to an ecosystem like you mentioned of people who need one to one content amplification.

So I'm going to be very intentional and digging into how I can plug you into my world.

33:13

I want to take a total tangential step aside from all of that, and I want to talk about something really important, which is hair.

I'm looking at your hair, people looking at my hair.

I get complimented on my hair every day.

I can only imagine the compliments you get.

33:29

What's that process been like to cultivate such an incredible name?

And you know what's the, what's the goal there?

Yeah, it was in the in the early days 'cause, you know, the constant constantly marketing and I had came to the conclusion super early on that you are the product even before you present a product because at the end of the day, people buy from people, not brands.

33:52

You may think you're buying from brands, but it's really the people behind it that you really believe in and that you really want to support and that's why they get the the dollars.

And so I was constantly thinking because back then it was just trying to be like a producer and a director shooting like commercials around town and short films that would be commercials or whatever the case may be.

34:14

And I was like, you know what, directors don't have mohawks.

I want to, like, grow a Mohawk.

Just so when I walk in the room, everybody's going to be like, who's that guy and what's he do?

And but after a while when, like, you know, it's funny, like fun's being low, you can't keep up with the maintenance of it and it just starts to grow uncontrollably.

34:35

I've had a shape of him forever.

And I'm like, and this actually looks kind of cool, though, like, it looks like, it looks like a visual metaphor for, like my brain and like ideas like all over the place.

I was like, you know what?

I'm going to, I'm going to keep it.

34:51

I'm just going to let it do whatever it wants to do and keep shaving the sides.

And that way I can like, put it up and play around with different things.

And, you know, but I'm just going to let it go because nobody has hair like that.

Nobody wants their hair to look like that.

It's considered, like, unprofessional.

35:08

It's nappy.

It's this, it's that.

But if I go into a professional space, I actually changed that perception.

Now and now again, there's a group of people out there that are like suppressing these things that they want to do because of acceptance.

35:26

I feel like there's there's personal comfort and then there's like group comfort.

And a lot of people will sacrifice personal comfort because they don't want to shake up the group.

Which means you're just roaming around not really being yourself and not being happy and not like actually doing the things that you want to do in the way that you want to do them.

35:44

Because you feel as though that like you won't be accepted and you won't get the opportunities or whatever the case may be.

And so that was like one of my big goals too.

Like I want to show what success can look like being your own unique self.

And so the hair just became one of those things And then the wardrobe and then the manner in which how we produce and what we're saying and what we're targeting is just like constantly creating this, this thing that sticks out like a sore thumb inside of business as usual areas.

36:20

Which is why I wanted to start with like really leaning in the start up space.

If I go after the arts, you're going to find a bunch of unique individuals as well.

So now you have a room full of unique individuals and you can't differentiate me between them versus you go into a room where everybody is, you can the complete opposite of everybody in the room.

36:39

Now you're just the one unique individual.

You can stand out even easier.

You can cut through the noise even easier.

The people I am battling are like talking heads.

It's like your CNN and and stuff like that.

Like inside business reporter.

36:56

Like I can't tell if you're talking about somebody passing away for a new product at Apple that like everybody loves, like it's all like the same delivery.

And so I have no reason to feel a different way about it because it's like you are you talking about the Jay-Z reference?

37:20

The tone has already been set.

This is how you guys feel about.

Everything's very neutral.

And so the tone I wanted to set was something different.

As far as like, no, I'm happy to be here.

No, I'm very appreciative of what you've done.

No, I want to.

I just want you to know that I thank you for all of those contributions and I want to make sure that other people know about it because I think it's such a tool that like they can benefit from it as well.

37:46

Because at the end of the day the goal is to pass back resources that other people can utilize the climb up as well.

And so the more the more low hanging fruit it is, the better.

38:01

You know those easy productivity one on ones, that program that's in your neighborhood, that's offering like coaching the like, you know all this stuff that like makes it even more accessible because there's a ton of reasons for why we can feel like it's not possible.

38:18

We're actually a lot of that is built in that self doubt, especially when you come from an underrepresented space where there are low resources and the idea of having more as attached to having to do all this stuff that you don't have any reference for.

38:35

And it just becomes like inspiration at the end of the day.

But there's no aspiration to it.

I can't really see me there unless I go this route that like you know, is really only let out for me.

Ballplayer, entertainer.

Whatever the case it may be, I want to show them that it's different, that it's something else, but in a way where it's like you don't have to change yourself to get it though.

39:04

Like, look at my hair, look at what I'm wearing, look at where I'm at, Look at, look at this whole presentation.

It's it was weird for a lot of people.

They didn't get it.

It's like, I don't understand this and it's because, you know, you didn't have a reference for it.

But like, I feel like if there is no reference, it's probably your job to become the reference And that consistency, that time it ends up being the reference.

39:25

So it goes from, I don't know what's going on, so I know exactly what's going on.

That's classic.

I've.

Been watching it for like the last year.

When I look at, it's like I'm looking at your website on my other screen and your hair is like clean and polished in that video.

39:41

Relative to how your hair looks right now and the way it's situated, it looks like a brain has been extruded from your skull and where it's got left hemisphere, right hemisphere.

And so I I like that from that it's like, hey, I'm really dialed into the two parts of my brain.

39:58

And then I also like the idea of like it's just going everywhere like your thought process and how it's, it's multifaceted like.

And I I think about hair quite a bit.

It's funny, I started with a basic question.

I said talk about your hair and we led to how you think representation being, whether something is inspirational versus aspirational challenges for underrepresented communities.

40:21

I'm very intentional about my look with my hair today.

And some of it is because I'm in an interracial family and I have kids in my family.

My nieces and nephews who are growing up in an era where their natural hair is much more encouraged and allowed than hair even was when I was growing up, versus how hair was when their grandma was growing up versus when they're great grandparents.

40:46

So I'm very much wanting to contribute to the progression of acceptance of what is considered professional or what is considered showing up.

Well, I'm Jewish and I'm a very hairy person, so I I grow the beard.

41:02

I don't want.

I don't want to be this person who has to shave every week and act as if I've I've got this baby face.

I'm a I'm a man and I'm going to present that way.

I have six or seven different colors within my beard.

And to me it represents the diversity of of my character and the diversity of the things that matter to me and that are inside me.

41:24

So I'm, I'm a big fan of outward expressions that try to be some dog of what's going on inside.

So I absolutely love the way you talk about and think about your relationship with your hair.

Thank you, thank you.

And so like everything is intentional, like Jadakiss has no wasted bars.

41:41

Like I I try to make sure that like everything has a has a purpose otherwise.

Otherwise, what are you actually doing?

Well, yes, and not only what are you doing, but why?

What's the point?

Did you exist just to have a limiter?

42:00

Are you here just to be the most acceptable version of yourself?

Are you here to push the boundaries?

I have.

I have your LinkedIn up and I'm looking at one of the things I love about your tagline of how you describe yourself.

You say husband to a rock star.

Global perspective.

42:16

I've.

I'm keying in on those two things.

Husband to a rock star.

I love that.

Talk about your rock star.

Yeah, yeah, my wife is.

She's the one that kind of like, because a lot of people are getting like the better version of me.

42:31

I wasn't that great person.

I was just messing around wasting this talent not being focused.

And she and then I met her one day she was running an event and it was the first time I have been next to somebody and standing and like looking at what they produce.

42:49

And I was like there's something I would have been and that and that in itself was like like it was exciting and since then we have just we've never stopped kicking it And so she's like the yin to the Yang as far as like she has a a master's in communications.

43:11

And so we both love words but like she's the she's the technical to my creativity.

I feel like you can teach a creative person to be technical but it's hard to teach a technical person to be creative.

And So what was being together it's like well you don't have to do that anymore.

You don't have to try to figure that side out.

43:28

We are like, I I haven't for you.

And so she just been like constantly refining a lot of it that I do and vice and I've just been constantly encouraging because I had a friend that told me once to like my superpower is I don't know any better.

43:45

I just, you know, I just, I just do.

I don't have that formal training.

I'm just like a kid still.

It's like they like don't go in that room.

It's like why?

It's like, I don't know, nobody goes in there.

Just don't go go in there.

It's like, well, I'm going to go in there and see what's in there because it might be something that we can utilize.

44:02

And so, you know, that's my kickback to her where it's like now I know you're amazing.

I can't wait for the world to see it.

And I'm just constantly, you know, pushing because again, you may have these feelings of like why you can't.

I can't see that.

All I know is what I walked into that first day and you know, maybe I am blowing it out of a portion, but So what?

44:23

That's what I saw.

That's what I have envisioned and I'm going to constantly work to lift you up towards that and and that's why I I I love her because it's still, I know there's still a whole bunch left to unlock and the more I do what I do the more I can free her up.

44:40

The space to discover herself in that more and slowly will surely become her version of that for her audience as well.

Sure.

I love that.

And I I think that that pairing works nicely.

My wife and I have a very similar pairing where we're both talented in many of the same disciplines, but the way we approach them is very different.

45:02

I tend to be very much I'll build the ship while it's flying and I'll figure out what we need as it's going.

Where my wife is like thinking 10 steps ahead.

And as much as I've liked chess, I've never been the best at it because I'm I'm never quite so willing to think all those moves ahead.

I tend to get what they call paralysis by analysis of if you give me too many factors I just can't make a decision.

45:25

So I try to make things simple and and maybe you take it a little bit more gut plus logic.

But then also when I'm thinking about this idea of it's easier to teach a creative person to be technical than a technical person to be creative.

A lot of the ideas resonating with me from Rick Rubin's book are that your most creative ideas don't come by following a technical process.

45:48

The technical process helps you harness the creativity to turn out work product, but it's the unstructured time.

It's the the departure from the norm.

Like, I started learning to play the trumpet back in October and November and just laying on my couch figuring out how this thing makes noises.

46:05

Like I I still haven't worked with the formal instructor or coach or tutor on it, and but my gauge is my wife says it's a little less of a problem when you're playing.

So, like, it means I'm trending in the right direction.

Sometimes I make good noises.

Yeah, there's like, I'm a big fan of the beautiful unknown.

46:24

Like I I I sit in maxes.

I know what I'm not going to take.

That's the tone that I have set.

But then I don't.

But I don't put on AI, don't put a Max because I don't know what's possible.

And so that's why it's important to go into those rooms that you don't know anything about and to go into those various spaces because that's where the creativity is.

46:47

The creativity is like on the back of like the spark of like something new.

And it's like, oh man, I want to, I want to push it.

I, you know, I try so hard to, like, set schedules for creating like Tuesday.

I'm going to write Wednesday, I'm going to record fight it never.

47:03

And it never works out that way.

I literally like my content for next week.

I got up this morning and I wrote it all out.

I wrote out four videos this morning.

I want to record them and edit them tomorrow and they're going to be ready for next week.

It's not the schedule.

47:20

This was not the schedule.

And I know a partner like it.

He's constantly like, it's like I needed it beforehand so I can look it over.

But I'm like I I couldn't think of anything till the day and I just happened to be scrolling and I saw somebody mention something.

I never saw that before.

47:37

That looks amazing.

I would have talked about it right now and then you know piece it together and drum it up and and that's in like that's so important to allow yourself to be open.

That's like stepping outside of a technical framework.

That's the that's not worrying about scheduling.

47:55

That's worrying about discovering.

Like sometimes you just got to go outside and take a walk because one, you you want to clear your brain, you want to stop thinking about it so hard.

You want to refresh a bit.

But then two, you know that song comes on or that person rides past or you see that car or that plane flying by and it triggers something.

48:18

And now I got to go create.

Like you creating room for you.

Like you have to allow room for that unknown to happen and spark that next idea.

I love it.

And you actually just gave me what is going to be the teaser clip for when I post this online.

48:37

Around the 50 minute mark we talked about creativity and you just dropped incredible bars that the world needs to know.

I love it.

Have you ever read The Artist's Way I?

Have not.

So it's a book that one of my best friends just gave to me.

48:53

And it is what described as like the 12 steps for an artist.

It's something that Martin Scorsese used, and it helped him in his process to get to the next level.

It's something that other artists have been extremely pleased with.

49:10

It sounds like a technical framework for building some of the guidelines that are going to foster your creativity best.

And I said the example of like 12 steps for creativity because this friend and I are both in recovery from drugs and alcohol.

We've used the 12 steps to transform our life.

49:26

And when she's explaining this book, she's like, it's like if you took the 12 steps for our creativity.

So that's the next book on my list.

I've already read like the the couple of preferences and or intros.

So that's my gift to you.

If that book is in any way helpful, I I hope it takes you to your next level.

49:44

Awesome.

Yeah, I'll check that out.

Cool.

Very cool.

I will.

I'll send it to you as a gift because I I think it's important to to send people books.

So I'm going to make a note.

Some of the best books I've ever read were books that people gave me, and I never would have spent the 10 to $20 on the book because I didn't know the value inside the book.

50:04

But once I've applied the book, it's changed my life in a limitless capacity where I'm willing to pay it forward to as many people as I can.

So a lot of times I find a book I like and I buy ten of them and I just start giving them away.

Yeah, that's how.

That's how the same thing for me.

50:19

That's how it is with I think, the the two books that like super changed my life.

Three books, Real artists Don't Starve Crossing the chasm and Real Artists Don't Starve Crossing the Chasm and oh Freaks Shall Inherit the earth.

50:42

All all three from my wife.

I'm going to that when I listen to this again, I'm going to go back and I'm going to add those to my list.

I'd say some books for me that have changed my life.

One of them is called Polishing the Mirror.

Are you familiar with Ram Dass?

So Ram Dass is one of the people I'm most grateful for in in the existence of the world when I was going through a really difficult time.

51:08

And I'll I'll tell this story in a little more detail in a second.

Actually, fuck, I'll just start from the beginning.

When when I was in college, I realized I had a drug and alcohol problem.

You know, I wasn't quite sure what to do with that, but I found myself drinking and getting high everyday times.

51:25

When I said I wouldn't found ourselves getting mushrooms one night and we did them two weeks later.

I ended up assaulting 2 police officers waking up in the hospital.

Yes, spending the night in jail.

And so I tell that story for a couple reasons.

51:40

But one, when people talk about like, white privilege as a concept, a lot of times they're doing so to justify themselves as a white person playing small and minimizing their impact in the world.

They just go, oh, white privilege, white privilege.

And it just keeps them from making impact.

51:57

Like I'm living after assaulting 2 police officers in the relatively Deep South.

There's people that a few shades darker than me can't tell that story.

So I live with that as an as a continual life privilege.

So I'm always thinking about how do I create a way for people and how do I use whatever I have as a gift to to bring somebody else along, make their life better, change circumstances.

52:23

But anyways, the day I got back from jail, I'm walking home and my dad was telling me about this guy Ram Dass.

I should look into Ram Dass at the time, when he was at Harvard was Doctor Richard Alpert and he was involved with the Harvard LSD studies, him and Tim Leary, and they were learning about Psychosylvan and learning about LSD, learning about all kinds of things that today is considered transformative, really important research.

52:49

But back then we could do a whole episode about what happened back then.

But anyways, he is one of the guys who goes on from this drug experimentation, goes out east, falls in love with yoga and with studying a lot of the internal aspects of Hinduism and and then eventually Buddhism and Christianity and comes full circle to reconcile with his Judaism.

53:16

And a lot of the things he has to share about life really resonate with me.

So his book Polishing the Mirror is a collection of stories and insights from him that I've I've given to a ton of people.

I bring all that up because you're you're such a an artful, soulful dude.

I would imagine you've got some sort of inner concept of spirituality.

53:34

What's what's that like for you in your in your world and and and if you're open to sharing about that, you know, talk to me about your conception of what the universe is about or or what brings you purpose.

Yeah, I like.

I'm very spiritual, not too religious when you know that's his personal preference.

53:54

But as far as, like, believing in a higher power, I'd be 100% because I don't know why.

I know what I know and I I respect that a lot and that's why I I try not to waste the like time and this ability.

54:12

That's why I knew I I really needed to change things around for the family because of the family.

I had my children.

I just wasn't needed to be a better example.

And I feel like every time it was something talking to me that was like, it's it's been so many occasions where I've just been right on time with something that I have created.

54:32

And and folks are like like I remember when I put out the The higher Runner video for Arlen Hamilton's company and she responded and she was like, I don't know how you knew that today was our anniversary but thank you for this.

54:49

I had no idea.

No idea.

But and and I have so many different examples of that where like I just feel like I'm supposed to be there.

Something is telling me to create in that way I have these conversations with people explaining process and philosophy so on and so forth and like oh man, this is awesome.

55:10

Did you go to school for this?

I'm like, Nah, just woke up one day and I just.

I just knew it and and that in itself gives me reason to act on it because I feel like I was put here for a purpose and to not live up to that is doing a disservice to my place here and so I'm just constantly listening.

55:34

Of course I have like my my my different like complaints and issues and and whatnot because of how certain things have gone in in my life and but I just look at it like this was supposed to happen.

55:49

I may, I may not be happy with this decision that was kind of like made for me, but it is the design and I'm just working.

I'm just, I'm just walking this road.

I'm accepting things to the best of my abilities even now.

56:06

You know, like dealt with like some hardship recently.

And I find myself sometimes thinking like I have nothing to give right now, but somehow I have everything to give right now.

And I know it's not me.

I know it's not me.

56:22

It's like, you know, pushing me through to make that happen at the scale that I'm making it happen that and and so that's like, yeah, that's that's kind of like where I fall on the spirituality side of things, like just leaning into it more and more as I've gotten older.

56:42

And again, I became a reference for myself because before it's just like, you know, you take it for granted.

But after a while with like consistency, it's like, no, this is, this is obviously a real thing that I can't even stop if I wanted to.

So maybe I should start getting more intentional, more focused, more purposeful and and do what it feels like I was supposed to do, Which is like, I've never had anybody telling me I was a bad person.

57:09

I've actually had people say you're not a bad person.

You just did a couple bad things.

But you yourself are not a bad person and always had that benefit of the doubt and that it almost like that, that patience and that grace waiting for me to like turn over and and and start doing what I was meant to do.

57:28

And so I've never, like not had a support system in regards to that.

And so now I'm just, I'm just looking at how I am now that I am focused.

I am building support system because I am supportive because I am taking the time out to offer this thing that like nobody asks for but and and didn't know that they need it at the end of the day because it's a it's an internal boost more than anything.

57:53

Yeah, there's the business aspects of it, but it's internal more than anything because you have to run your business.

Your business is nothing without you know you.

It's a manifestation of you in some way shape or form and that's why you tend to attract other like minded people because for as a feather and so yeah that's that's my that's my take on the spiritual side of things.

58:16

That is everything is is driven by and everything and and that's why I respect everything that I have been given, every opportunity that I've had and every moment when like I feel like I'm being told what to do.

58:36

You're you're touching on a lot.

I think the the divine timing of creation, one of the things I heard that really opened my mind to my current conception of the universe and in a higher power is this idea that when you go to the ballet and you see somebody dancing you, you're watching the dancer, but you're also watching the dance.

59:01

And in the same way, there is a creator and we're the creation.

Like, I know I exist that was created.

Like I'm inherently proof there is a creator.

And in the same way you can't separate the dance from the dancer, you can't separate the creation from the creator that clicked.

59:18

And I said, oh OK, I can start there because organized religion never clicked for me.

I'm I'm a very, very proud Jew and it's the 11 spot that probably keeps me tethered to transcending outside some level of self and truly just being like people or people.

59:36

I still have some tethering to that, that connectivity, but it's never been a religious connectivity.

It's never been the things I did at Temple.

I felt a connection to God.

I just felt a connection to people.

And in that same regard, you also talked about this.

59:55

You're not a bad person.

You just might do bad things.

I'm a real believer that it's not our identities that are the problem, it's our need to identify.

And our need for you to accept my identity.

1:00:11

That's really the root of most struggle I look at.

There's this concept of the seven layers of self or that I I reference frequently.

But like this the sixth layer of ego before you get to your innermost self.

Ego is important, like we need to have a self conception, but with the 2nd we try and put our ego or self conception on somebody else, we're running into problems.

1:00:32

I think that's one of the reasons conflict happens, Period.

There's also power struggle.

And I I get all that and like I don't, I don't want to go against things that are like classical racism or economic power institution issues.

But like today, I think most identity politics and culture war is around.

1:00:52

I need you to address me a certain way or see me a certain way.

And our feeling of I need to control how I see you or how I believe who you are.

And I you need to pass through my filters, And if society could take like, a giant edible or like have some sort of, like cosmic dosing where we could lose our egos and just all appear as self, we'd start to realize that, like, there's really no reason to have nearly the level of beef we have today.

1:01:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's it's all weird territorial hidden agendas and you know, subconscious beliefs that you don't realize they're rising to the top barriers of like, you know, majority of the time.

1:01:34

And that's why I just leaned into the things that I can control.

I and and the one thing I can control is like even, you know, even dealing with what I dealt with top of the year, I had to pause for a second.

I had to accept it.

1:01:50

I didn't have to like, I didn't like it, but I had to accept it.

And and then I had to take a moment and say, 'cause I was trying to, like, make some other things happen and wasn't really happening.

And then I had a friend that like, you know, kind of gave me a kick in the butt.

And he was like, man, just do what?

Just do what got you here.

1:02:06

Like go back to doing what got you here.

And I was like, yeah, you're right, 'cause that's the thing I can control.

And that's why I I started like, recording again.

It's like I'm in this moment.

I I'm feeling helpless.

But there is a thing that I can still control, and let's just start the process with that and slowly but surely get back to believing again.

1:02:34

And so that's a that's a me thing.

That's like taking it out of the hands of any and everybody else.

A lot of people will stop because they're waiting for somebody to give them something.

Nobody's going to give you anything.

It's not it.

Even though it is their job to support you.

1:02:50

Because we are all you know the human race.

We're all one.

We should all want the best interest for every for each and every one of us.

But that's not the case.

And so you have to lean into what you can control and what you can build upon it like I say man pay your taxes and get out of the way like you know so so they can not look for you.

1:03:11

Stop checking for you and and now that they aren't, like, just start building, like.

Because when you're underrated and we're not checking for you, you don't realize how much of an advantage that is.

Like, because nobody's trying to stop you, Nobody's trying to get in your way.

1:03:26

They only try to get in your way when you try to take the stairs.

But otherwise they don't even know you're there for the most part.

And so if you can just do it, do what you're doing and sneak upon them and create something that they can't stop.

Because if you have the people, if you have the audience, if you have the different processes, it's becoming successful in your own right.

1:03:49

What do you need them for then?

They.

Then they need you.

And now we can negotiate.

Well, now you said that you said that whole thing about like what can I do the footwork and before your other comment kind of tied back to a way I think God is the architect and we're the builder.

You know there is this plan, but we have to show up and do the footwork.

1:04:08

So you talked about when you know what happened that you've you've dealt with, which I I feel awful about.

I'm going through my own, my own situation right now and it's nowhere near the the scale to which you went to.

But I'm dealing with some health issues and it's really forcing me to look at what is within my control and what's not.

1:04:27

And it's not about how I feel about it, but what am I going to do in spite of it?

And I'm looking at what are the blessings.

I have these four values listed on my Nate Ventures website, and you basically talked about all of them.

This idea of abundance, generosity, gratitude, intentionality, like to a tee, you hit on all four of them.

1:04:49

I think that's the reason we click.

But outside of that, I'm looking at like, what's the gift of what I'm going through?

Well, number one, it's giving me greater empathy for a few family members who who are in this kind of position already and it's helping me realize what they've gone through.

It's helping me look at the generosity of well, how do I want to spend my time and how do I want to show up for the people who've shown up for me.

1:05:12

I'm looking at the abundance of what are all the resources I do have and what's that inner resource and get back to the basics with the meditation, with yoga and and getting my my energetic state to be as best as possible for my body.

And then that intentionality, it's forcing me to cut out the things I really don't want to do and like I really do want to be here with you.

1:05:31

Today I woke up and was feeling like cancelling today, but I looked at the list and everything on it was something I wanted to do.

So at least there's there's a gratitude in that.

I'm not like, oh man, I I don't want to go to work today, but I got to go to the coal mine to support my family.

1:05:47

Like I get to get on the computer and chat with dope people like you.

Yeah, yeah.

You start realizing, leaning into what's important and like the things that like matter the most.

We have these, like these big lists of like all the stuff that we have to do.

1:06:03

But if you really looked at it and did and all that, you realize that a lot of this isn't like super important.

It's just stuff that you want to do.

But as far as like what you need to do.

So like we we, we are a indulgent society.

1:06:19

And that's with everything that isn't just with like, you know, buying material things and whatnot.

It's just in general we want it all and we and we feel like we should have it all.

And you just like they say, you only get what you negotiate.

You get what you negotiate.

1:06:34

That's a life thing, man.

That isn't just like contracts and checks and balances.

That's that's life in general.

Like, what did you, what did you work for?

What did you create opportunity for?

What did you build around?

And how did you look at it?

1:06:51

Did you look at it like it wasn't enough or was more than enough?

Did you look at it like it was successful or it wasn't so successful?

Everything's glass half empty or half full?

Which way do you choose to lean?

And the a lot of things are going to come out on the back of that.

1:07:09

And so that's, I mean that's what I focus on more than anything.

Yeah, I have my complaints when things don't go the way I may have claimed, but I don't stop because I know eventually it's just like this iteration.

1:07:24

It didn't do what I needed to do, but doesn't mean that the next won't.

But I can 100% guarantee that nothing to happen if I do stop and I don't.

I don't like that.

I don't like those odds.

There's there's a track on Are you familiar with Mike Posner?

1:07:44

Yeah.

So he remember.

Mike.

That he did a walk across the country and he did it, made a mix tape that was like going to be inspirational while he was doing it.

And there's a track where Diddy's talking to him on a voicemail and he's like, don't stop, never quit.

And the way, like, first of all, it was just classic Diddy.

1:08:01

But the way the track loops and the way you can just kind of heal and feel the energy, it was meaningful.

I think Mike Posner's an interesting artist because he he got famous by kind of like Douche Baggy college rap and overtime really went through a deep transformational, personal journey.

1:08:20

And now his music is much more of like a spiritual, self examination kind of thing.

But also that guy who like a lot of people who are really into hip hop would often overlook 'cause he's just kind of this white college rapper that.

But his journey's been super interesting.

1:08:37

He put on a mix tape when I was in college that his features were just insane.

Some of like the the people that that were on the project, like Sihai, the Prince of all people who I was actually a social media intern for back in the day.

He had he had just had some interesting cats.

1:08:52

He had Taya Bali on a track who when he was coming up.

I don't know if you're familiar with Taya Bali.

He was getting started the same time as Mac Miller but one guy was Philly, one guy was Pittsburgh, and I thought Taya Bali had a bigger potential and then Mac just blew the fuck up.

1:09:09

But I'm.

I'm always a fan of artists.

I study artist documentaries way more than I study business documentaries because I feel like how artists who go from following passion to success, it's a much more interesting and organic story.

So I I don't even know where I'm going with this, but these are just things coming to mind with what you're talking about.

1:09:30

That was, that was my era too.

I remember the They called it Blog Wrap when everybody was like making onto the other Pigeons and Planes, the two dope boys and all those different things.

The the Asher Ross, the Mike Posner's the Shitty Bangs the like it was a Wiz Khalifa came up through those camps, the the college circuit.

1:09:51

And you know that was like big info for me early too because of the going directly to the people like not worrying about like creating this thing and going the labels.

But like no, it's just build up our own local scenario.

Let it carry us across the country and kind of get to the point where like we can be in position to like close not in like.

1:10:10

I've I've always been like an independent guy man like build like you can get $1,000,000 from one person you can get a dollar from a million people they both go in the same place but like one is a lot more powerful because of the social capital attached to it as well and I thought that's like what that era represented.

1:10:26

A lot of people didn't like take advantage of it as well but I I feel like it was like the beginning of that for like the digital age.

Like of course the masterpiece and everybody did it before but that was that was pre computer blog wrap era was like the was like that like really leading into that digital age of like we can, I can make it right now.

1:10:47

I can get it out tomorrow because I have this connection with this, with this local blog that we didn't know that was going to turn into this big thing, but like, we just catered to all the little guys.

Yeah, well, even like what Andrew Barber did in creating Fake Shore Dr. I don't know if you're familiar with the publication, but it started out as like this guy from Indiana, kind of like shit talking Chicago music, and it turned into the most influential Chicago music publication we had.

1:11:16

And they're literally like he he's got an incredible Twitter following and he does really interesting things.

One of the things that Andrew tweeted recently was like when this guy threatened to rob me if I didn't put him on my website and like it was just wild, that era of of music and and kind of how things worked.

1:11:36

I feel like Chance the Rapper's career is almost like a a perfect the height of and also downfall of the direct to people through the Internet 'cause we're we're seeing it change quite a bit now.

But like with where people saw chances, this guy who stayed independent the whole time.

1:11:55

But then the flip side was that he also had all of the makings of a institutional Chicago figure.

Like he had a a father who's part of like the wealthy black elite.

He had all the right connections.

So like, you weren't going to be another chance doing it exactly like him.

1:12:12

And it almost kind of to me represents the the institutions finally caught up with the indie and now we're we're kind of back at this unique spot with music of trying to reclaim the soul and independence of it with unique messaging.

I haven't really heard anything new in quite some time that I was like, oh, I got to tell somebody about this.

1:12:32

I actually go a lot farther back now.

But it's also probably because I'm old in the frequency of just how I'm how I'm living my life these days.

And not, like, not like I was when I was, you know, 17 discovering music on my Internet computer.

Yeah, I finally turned into the old get off my long guy as as well.

1:12:49

I'm still listening to older stuff.

I have my I have my playlist, occasionally something new of a breakthrough, but very rarely.

I'm still like I still watch old movies.

I'm I'm like rewatching Luther now.

1:13:05

Like I I just like the the the old stuff.

I was there.

I had AI had got a the Brit box subscription just so I could watch Perot from the beginning.

Like, I just like the the older stuff when like, you know because the more the more digital we've gotten, the more more and the more presets are driven we've gotten, the less skill you need because a lot of these things kind of like do it for you versus before where like I had I got this book called Painting with Light and just talking about it talks about the different styles of lighting film and like you know the 50s and like the difference between war and comedy and action and all these different things and showing you the light placement.

1:13:51

And it's like, man, we've gotten like nobody has to think about this anymore because it just the technology is different.

And not to say that that's a bad thing but I do.

I do feel like at times people have gotten like really lazy around what they're producing because they can't crack it out so fast because there's a an AI component that can drum up here a a week's worth of content with pictures and things.

1:14:12

It's like, well, yeah, with this there's no there's no soul to it because there's no, like, real.

There's nothing to connect to.

I can't.

I can't look at it and see you in it and then relate to you more because of it.

You're not saying that thing that like triggers some sort of emotional tug.

1:14:32

And I also think that's why I'm like cutting through more and more now.

It's because of how we were talking about before.

Like, I can't tell the difference between, you know, the death or the the starting of a company because you said them both the same way.

1:14:49

That's there's no like versus like when you think about movies, like if if it's a sad moment, it's delivered sad, you feel sad.

If it's a happy moment, it's delivered happily.

I feel happy.

Like it's that's what I'm trying to carry into it.

I feel like was missing.

1:15:05

Well there's this man, so many riches there on the production side.

When everything kind of went to LEDTVSI remember being pissed off because everything I watched looked like a soap opera.

And I was like, I was so mad because I'm, I like, I want to see something old school that was recorded on film.

1:15:26

It doesn't need to look perfect.

It needs to look like a movie.

And if you're showing me something that looks like a soap opera, I'm just, I'm, I'm like, I'm not autistic.

But I noticed certain details that if the detail bothers me, I'm checked out and like I can lose the forest for the trees big time.

1:15:41

And one of those things is lighting in movies.

Another thing that is super to me with music, it's like what are your influences that went into the art you created?

One of the reasons I stopped liking a lot of commercial grade hip hop was you could tell all these kids listen to his hip hop and they they didn't.

1:16:04

They didn't have this wealth of a background of other types of music.

They didn't have this other curiosity or they just saw it as a way to make money and then they were going to be on to the next thing.

And you see a lot of artists who become very popular in a commercial way and then they move on and then they shit on the art form and it that really rubs me the wrong way.

1:16:24

So I I I connect to that that soul, that thing in it that speaks to me like this.

This painting right here is the first painting I ever bought and I really didn't have much money when I bought it.

But it just I looked at that guy and I said that's me.

1:16:40

I said there's this like this is a medium sized ape.

This is not a a great ape.

This is not a a linebacker sized ape.

This is also not a child ape.

This is like a you know, a medium ape.

I'm a medium ape, and I I could just see the the pain in his in his face and what he's getting out from him.

1:17:02

But he's he's an animal and he's not.

But he's doing a human thing.

He's singing and there's there's so many layers to it that I just said I need to have this thing because this this just feels like me.

And it's supposed to and that's and and that's how that's why I like to lean in to see more man.

1:17:23

That's why I say more targeted versus mass.

Like mass is, you know it's just by just here you don't know why.

You know unless it's just something that this has a huge cult following.

But a lot of the other things, just the people that are here are the people that are supposed to be here.

1:17:38

There's there's nobody here that is that isn't supposed to be here.

And and that's the intentionality of it and you end up attracting people that are intentional as well.

But also it allows you it creates a is a good way to weed out the ones that aren't the ones that you know aren't genuine and don't truly believe in.

1:17:59

The mission is more transactional versus relational.

And so that's like that's very important to like to lean into that a lot of people don't because of again not trying to rock that new comfort, not trying to.

1:18:15

And so when you do that naturally then it, it bleeds over and everything else.

And so every type of scenario that you find yourself in it you you can't even take the time out to appreciate what you're feeling about that picture in relation to you because of all the blockers that you have up.

1:18:32

Sure, I love it.

I know we're getting close on time here.

I've always like to ask my guests who's the one person they'd love to connect with and can we make our audience make it happen.

However, like I said earlier, I think you're the one person who's the most well qualified to do 1 to 1 outreach.

1:18:48

But maybe who's somebody who you haven't made a video about yet that you're super excited about, Or somebody who's like that big audacious video for you one day that maybe we can help inspire you to make that one day closer to today.

I don't know the person that like, probably like, like I have this list of people that I eventually plan to discuss and I'm and I'm still filling it out.

1:19:12

But I yeah, I'm not.

I'm not sure, 'cause I I do feel like no one's kind of out of reach.

1:19:30

One side kind of latch on to you, maybe.

If anything, there's like one guy that I've been this, that I've put on the list but I haven't discussed.

He had a guy named Nathan Jones.

He used to be with Andreessen and Horowitz.

1:19:46

I hope I pronounced it right.

I never, I never pronounced it right.

But like just as just watching his come up and like the the, the, the digital and musical end of things and it was almost like.

Like a really cool big yeah.

1:20:03

Between him and Ryan Leslie eventually I would love to connect because Ryan Leslie was doing a lot of stuff that like triggered a lot of my thinking like with his super phone app.

And the a lot of that is about the one to one establishing a relationship and actually knowing the value of that relationship.

1:20:24

And and in crowdsourcing for your goals like first time I really saw the concept of like anything that you're looking for is probably already around you if you just look, if you just like speak in words instead of like trying to search outward by looking at the circle around you and like and like really extract all the value that's there.

1:20:45

So those two people I are like pretty interesting and I would love to at some point like sit down and have a conversation with them because I think they're, I think their minds are amazing and I think the strides that they have made in their industries and outside of their industries are just awesome because of just the way they look at things.

1:21:05

I'm curious to like one day like to get a bird's eye view of their perspective.

I love that.

Absolutely love it.

You what you just sparked is kind of the thesis or not even a thesis.

But the the thought behind the thesis for why I started Nate Ventures was that I I strongly believe everybody has all the resources around them to succeed and achieve their dreams.

1:21:30

There's the inner resources and then there's their circle.

There's a business model I'm building around what I'm building right now and it's going to talk about that.

So I love that you touched on it.

It's God reminding me.

I got the right people around me already.

Classic.

This was an outstanding I really appreciate you being here.

1:21:49

I'm going to put in the description, your website, your LinkedIn, anything else you'd like me to share and I wish you a wonderful day, Much love and much love for everybody who tuned in.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.