0:10

Hi and welcome to the Much loved podcast.

As always, I'm your host, Nate Ruben.

Today I'm thrilled and genuinely excited for this conversation with my good friend Ellie.

Ellie Bahrmasel.

Did I say that right?

Bahrmasel?

Bahrmasel

Bahrmasel and you told me this.

0:26

I'm a little dyslexic.

You know my my trouble with words.

I appreciate you correcting me, but Ellie Bahrmasel is the CEO of further, Faster Venture Studio.

I have a little bio because Ellie's really incredible and I want to make sure I don't miss anything.

Ellie's leveraged human capital centered design and systems thinking to advance collaborative initiatives in the private, public and nonprofit sectors with partners domestically and abroad.

0:52

I know Ellie from our work together on the JNF Futures Chicago Group and most recently we went on the Jalen's mission trip with JNF.

At some point I'm going to reference other parts of her bio, but everyone please give a warm welcome to Ellie.

Ellie, thanks for joining me today.

1:09

Thanks so much for the invitation.

I'm thrilled to be with you for.

Context.

Typically I don't talk about when I record an episode, but today is Tuesday, July 5th.

Ellie and I are both natives of Chicago or the Chicagoland area.

Most people are aware nationally by now.

1:25

But there was a a mass shooting at the 4th of July parade in Highland Park.

Ellie and I decided it was best not to cancel today and and have this conversation.

It might inform where our chat goes, but if you notice our energy isn't as high as it usually is it's probably because we're we're mourning and grieving and and going through a process.

1:45

So, Ellie, it does, it does mean a lot to me that you you joined me today.

Thanks for making the space night.

I think it's important not to shy away from the hard things.

And today's a hard day, not just for the Chicagoland area, but for the dozen other cities that had mass shootings this weekend.

2:03

And I think we need to show up and and have the hard conversations if we're we're going to make it through the other side of this.

Absolutely.

I I totally agree.

I know that you and I'll probably end up speaking about this to some extent prior to this weekend.

Part of why I asked Ellie to to join was really a multitude of reasons. 1st, when I I was on this leadership trip in Israel, Ellie stood out as a leader among leaders.

2:31

Everyone who is invited on this trip is already actively involved in leadership with their own local community, so this is really like a cream of the crop trip.

And Ellie stood out as somebody who constantly rallied the troops, had really thoughtful, meaningful things to say, and selfishly I just want to get to know her better.

2:49

So I invited her on the show professionally.

We're both from similar spaces in the design and startup community.

But Ellie also has a background in politics, is involved.

She's a delegate to the Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs, Young Diplomat Seminar.

3:05

She's on the steering committee for Chicago chapter of all Rays.

There's a lot going on in Ellie's world, and I just thought that with whatever platform I have, I'd love to open the door for her.

So before you know we get too far off the rails, Ellie, tell me a little bit about yourself and what is it that you're most passionate about in in your life?

3:26

Well, first I have to thank you for your kind words, Nate.

That really means so much to me, especially because I feel so, so similarly about you.

It was incredible to share that experience with you and see all of the beautiful ways that you show up in community as a leader amongst other leaders.

And I know the trip would not have been the same without you.

3:44

And selfishly, I'm very thankful that we get to share our home community as well.

You know, with the rest of our peers being scattered across the country.

It's really nice to know that I get to see your face in person and benefit from your leadership in in my own backyard.

So you already mentioned that we're both native Chicagoans and I say that a lot of my work is driven by two things.

4:08

The 1st is a deep passion for making the invisible visible.

And what I mean about what I mean by that is creating the space, the frameworks and the communities for people to come together and surface new insights or surface insights that aren't as apparent to the masses and come together to use those insights and learnings to create something new, something better, something that advances all of us.

4:36

And the other thing that drives me is a deep belief that humans are longing to belong and that we're better when we're together.

And so how do we create the technologies and the companies and the opportunities that allow people to be fully human together, which is no easy fee, but certainly something that I think our nation if not the globe needs in this, in this moment.

5:02

So that takes shape in lots of different ways, certainly professionally with the work we do at further faster ventures where we work with early stage companies to help them build, often from the ground up or from those earliest days into growth stage companies.

And then in my personal life with my volunteerism and and activism.

5:23

And I feel really grateful to be in community in lots of different ways, with really incredible people that stretch me to learn and grow.

Because if I'm not constantly challenging myself, grappling with new ideas, learning from new people and their lived experience, and not nearly as effective for the world as I can be.

5:43

I love it.

You said a lot, a lot, because you've got a lot going on and a lot of meaningful things.

But what stood out to me most was this basic desire for belonging in community.

I'm a big believer that community is the core of of what what what transforms just the things we do to, why we do it and who we do it with.

6:06

And that the difference between somebody who feels very engaged in their life and somebody who feels like they're just drifting has a lot to do with community.

Talk to me a little bit on the professional side.

How have you created this community within your own business and in what what inspired you to to take the leap to to start your own firm with a a couple of partners because it it takes a lot of risk and a lot of faith.

6:30

So talk to me a little bit about community at work and about why you guys started further farther or farther, further faster.

You know, it's it's such an interesting question, right, about about taking the risk to bet on yourself and to bet on your partners when you start start a venture.

6:50

And I've been reflecting on this quite a bit lately with other founders in my network or aspiring founders.

And you know, the gift of hindsight is often clarity.

And as I look back, I realized that I've always been an entrepreneur at my core, even in my youth, organizing different ventures as a as a kid, right?

7:15

Like organizing A Babysitters club.

Which, spoiler alert, was certainly inspired by the Babysitters Club.

I was going to ask if it came from the books.

I know you're a big reader.

Yeah, it definitely came from the books.

I I'd say I was like, you know, looking for inspiration always for things that I could build and things I could build with other people.

7:35

So those books were like excellent fodder for for my overactive imagination.

But you know, I think life is hard no matter how you look at it and what you do in in the world professionally.

And I believe you pick your hard things that you know, whether you work for a large corporation, whether you go out on your own, whether you work for a small mom and pop brick and mortar, there will be hard days.

8:05

But knowing yourself well enough to know what's the hard that you are still excited to get up and work through is important.

And I've been very fortunate to work on some fascinating projects with incredible organizations over the course of my career.

8:24

And in 2015, I took the leaf to bet on myself for the first time.

And a lot of that was spurned by or spurred by this sense that the speed at which I wanted to move, to try new things and test things rapidly to to get new insights, was often incompatible with being within large bureaucratic institutions.

8:50

It's hard to get big institutions to be comfortable with change and change rapidly.

I mean, that's that's an uphill battle.

So after a couple of different ventures, what led me to start further faster with my partners was actually very rooted in the community.

9:10

We had all been in the entrepreneur seat before founding our own venture backed companies as well as consulting with other venture backed companies that we didn't found but had an instrumental role in supporting.

And we realized that there were so many common potholes on that road of early stage entrepreneurship.

9:33

And if you didn't have a community of practice to be in the weeds with that, it was really hard to know what's coming, especially as a first time founder.

And we united around this idea that we could help more early stage founders and their teams get ahead faster if we could wrap around support, community, knowledge, process, frameworks, team and be in the work with them.

10:03

So you know many ways we were solving for our own problems that we had had years before.

I like it.

And the part of what I heard when you were telling me a bit about your company when we were in Israel was this idea that there's so many of the same problems that companies run into obstacles, roadblocks, however we want to frame it.

10:25

And you have seen them, your partners have seen them and now you make a living by helping new start-ups identify those areas and use your specific core competencies to help them overcome those challenges and essentially get to where they want to go faster.

10:40

Which to me when I hear further faster ventures it's very clear the the Y and the the mission like the the mission is we're going to go further faster.

I tell people all the time I would rather own 10% of a billion dollar company than 100% of $100,000 company and when you understand really why you know why having partnership and why having this community is beneficial.

11:08

I I think it it really speaks to people who've been there.

I want to take a step back, though, even before your entrepreneurship days.

Talk to me about your involvement in the political scene, largely because I think it informs a lot of what you understand about community.

11:26

I started my career in the political universe as a community organizer, so it certainly informs the way I think about how we bring people together for a goal at this stage in my career, even though it's in a completely different context.

So I started my career in municipal politics.

11:43

I worked on the first truly competitive Mayors race in Chicago in 22 years, and I was a field organizer that covered our.

Large.

Geographic area for the city, For any Chicagoans who are tuning into our conversation, they'll understand exactly how vast my territory is when I say I covered everything from Roosevelt Rd. to the Indiana border.

12:08

And, you know, it was a time of both great fear and optimism for the city.

After 22 years of one leader, people were excited about the chance to bring in new leadership and what that could mean for the city.

There was also a lot of fear around the unknown, and there were a lot of different leaders in the race trying to earn the right to represent Chicago.

12:32

And I'm a big believer that when you love something, you go all in to make it real or to support it reaching its fullest potential.

And and you know, Chicago, for all of its flaws, is a place that I also deeply, deeply love.

12:51

So it was interesting to spend time in community with other people finding, you know, anyone who chooses Chicago.

And really as in adulthood, you can leave.

So everyone who's here chooses it in many ways.

13:06

And connecting with the real Chicagoans to understand what were their biggest hopes and fears and aspirations for our city, and helping them see a pathway for them to influence and bring their voice to the table.

13:23

And to do that in harmony with other people was honestly one of the best jobs I've ever had.

Because great community starts from a place of listening and understanding what are our shared goals and aspirations, even the ones rooted in fear and helping people see that through line.

13:44

Regardless of whether you know you're a preschool teacher on the North Side or an analyst who lives on the South Side, that we all have something that unites us and we can rally around that and we can see the the opportunity to learn from and with one another.

14:06

So I that really informs so much of how I move through the world these days and translated that into a career in the administration working in the mayor's office of Chicago for a few years and getting to see how the city operates from the bird's eye view of all of the different pieces that run.

14:24

And it's really quite remarkable how little we know, how little we learn in our civic spaces until really get under the hood and see the behemoth that our city.

Is I can imagine.

I mean when you talked about leaving behind large entities because of how difficult it is to change and starting something that's lean and you and your partners had a lot of agency over the the bureaucracy involved with running a city like Chicago, but also being involved from the ground up in that mayoral campaign and then eventually working the administration.

15:00

That's an incredible experience that very few people are blessed to have.

The previous two speakers, our guests rather I've had on this show have also been Chicago related.

One's been Corey McQuaid who runs Northwestern Mutual Chicago as the Managing partner and then Rick Krosnick, who's the Chief Development Officer for JNFUSA.

15:23

And we've talked about what Chicago is meant to them or some of their thoughts.

But given your experience, I'd say you have a particularly keen insight than the average talking head.

What do you think people in the national media get wrong about Chicago?

15:40

What do you think is actually a relevant whether it's strategy or who needs to be at the table to help solve some of the quote, UN quote problems that have been systemic in Chicago for decades?

Oh, I feel like the national media gets so much wrong about Chicago, it barely scratches the surface.

16:03

And usually it's sensationalized headline about one of our challenges, usually centering on violence or our schools.

And if I could encourage the media to tell a different story about Chicago, it would be the fact that Chicago is my my former boss used to say that Chicago is the most American of American cities.

16:28

But I really do believe that it sits at this interesting crossroads, given where we are geographically in the nation, to be the largest city in the Midwest and also the third largest city in the nation.

We represent the the heart and soul of what it means to be America and to be American in many ways.

16:49

You know, we we are not so far removed from our exurban in rural neighbors and there's a tremendous shared benefit between our economies.

Chicago doesn't exist without its rural and exurban partners as well as its suburban partners.

17:06

And it's a place where there is a limitless potential to create.

You know, we are situated on the shores of the Great Lakes, the largest single potable source of potable freshwater in the planet.

17:23

When we think about where the future exists in this country, it exists on the shores of the Great Lakes.

And the people of this city have so much heart and so much hustle, which I think is very emblematic of the American spirit in its highest and best form, right where you work hard, but you do it with passion and kindness and care for the people around you.

17:49

And no city in America represents that better than Chicago.

I like that.

I like that answer quite a bit.

Some of the things that stood out to me, this idea of anyone who's still here in adulthood chose to be here.

I think that's really important.

A lot of people locally will complain about things like the taxes, will complain about, you know, how many people are leaving the state.

18:12

They'll get upset about who's in charge no matter who's in charge.

But I always like the idea of personal agency.

If you're here, it's because you choose to be.

And I also like the flip side of all the unique aspects you talked about.

I'm always bringing up the Great Lakes, especially because when I think about the rest of the country and climate change and what the potential to damage looks like, I tell people, look, we're very, very protected from tornadoes.

18:38

We're not going to have hurricanes.

We're not going to have earthquakes.

It's very unlikely we're going to have a drought.

We have all this fresh water, so there's a lot of good natural resource reasons to be here.

But as I alluded to in the previous question, the idea of fixing problems, I know a lot of people will say these are systemic problems.

18:58

In your mind, what would you say are probably the biggest challenges to being all Chicago can be and and who are some of the people you think need to actually come together and be part of the community to to lead the change to wherever our great city can go?

19:16

I wish I had one magic answer that would that would illuminate the grand solution.

But I think what we need is coalition leadership, right?

19:31

We know that in order for Chicago to be the kind of place where anyone from any background and any identity can not just survive, but thrive and have a great quality of life, it needs to be representative.

So you know, I'll start with the business community, right?

19:49

We absolutely need a thriving business community to create the economic earning opportunities for every single Chicagoan up and down the the ladder of career, stage and industry.

And so I think it it can be foolish to pretend like we can build a thriving Chicago without centering.

20:12

To an extent, the the needs, the needs and the goals of the business community.

But I I want to emphasize the notion of coalition because that can't be the only place where we invest our time and energy.

We need leadership that can bridge between the needs of the business community and the economic development engine that we need to hum in Chicago and the needs of communities that have been historically disinvested.

20:40

You know, Chicago only works if it works for everyone.

And we need the voices of the people who have been most impacted by historic disinvestment to have a seat at the table to share what their communities need.

To be able to advocate for and receive resource in a way that helps fortify and strengthen those communities and the individuals within them.

21:02

And then creating the connection between disinvested community and business so that there is a pathway to opportunity from for everyone in Chicago, regardless of where they live or what school they went to.

You know, and alongside that continued investment in education and continued investment in healthcare, right, we know there's a 20 year death gap between people who live on the West side of Chicago and people who live just a couple miles east in the Gold Coast.

21:30

Talk about that a little bit more, because I'm I'm sure most people don't know what that is.

So there's there was a historic report that was released a few years ago that outlined that people living in particular zip codes primarily on the West side of the city of Chicago, which if you've been to Chicago and spent any time on the West side, you know it's a it's a set of communities that have a Direct Line of sight very literally into downtown Chicago.

22:01

Some of the best views of the skyscrapers that that populate our skyline and the individuals who live in that community due to inequities in our health system on average die 20 years before their peers who live just east in the neighborhoods where the skyscrapers sit.

22:21

And we have to address all of the reasons why that exists.

You know, if if people are going to thrive in Chicago, then that type of chasm between communities can't exist.

Certainly economic is part of it.

22:37

Creating more economic opportunity, eradicating biases that exist in our systems.

Also creating access not just the economic opportunities but to all of the wrap around support that individuals not just need but deserve.

22:53

Sure.

No, I I really appreciate you saying that and I know that's very specific to two parts of Chicago.

I want to go a little bit broader and think Chicagoland, right?

So let's say the 14 million people in the city and surrounding suburbs.

23:09

One of the things that I think hit me really hard about yesterday was seeing all the different narratives come out immediately after what can be looked at as an isolated incident of one person who is probably deeply in pain, very disconnected from the world, very much lacking love and compassion, doing a very fucked up thing.

23:35

Like from a like a Buddhist.

Let's just look at what happened, like that's what happened.

But what troubles me is just how quickly different viewpoints can lead to separation as opposed to rallying.

23:50

And and what I mean by that is, for example, one thing I heard was, well, why should we give a shit what happens in an affluent suburb?

People get shot every day on the South Side and on the West side, I heard the opposite.

This is a huge deal because this is a wealthy, affluent suburb.

24:08

This isn't supposed to happen here.

It's not like in those areas where it's gang bangers shooting each other.

And then I've heard things like, well, it's another young white male with an assault rifle.

That's why we need legislation.

24:25

And it just became all these storylines as opposed to just looking at something that's fucked up that happened, sitting with it and feeling the pain now that it's happened so close to where I am on a day.

And I'll get into specifics in a little bit where it just means a lot to me.

24:45

I'm seeing why all of these responses to gun violence is very fractured.

I guess my questions for you are you know what what was it like for your experience after what happened yesterday and and kind of what do you, what do you think drives some of those extreme viewpoints or or desires to point to other or to make things separate as opposed to just taking an event for what it is and being a tragedy?

25:14

There's so much to unpack there and you know my experiences, yesterday's horrific local tragedy, not even to make mention of the others around the country but specific to our corner of the world was really that that range of expression.

25:34

And it's not the first time that tragedy has befallen our broader community.

And there is this range of viewpoint as we look at what's happened.

And you know my, my, my working hypothesis is that we have so many communities experiencing pain in different ways and there is been no real meaningful solution, right Like we are.

26:01

We are looking to our leadership to help us find our way out of the pain and suffering that's happening in our communities in this country more broadly.

And nothing is changing.

And I think that creates a bit of a bit of scarcity right around whose problem are we going to solve first, where what, what's.

26:24

I think back to chicken and egg, right?

And in many ways of you know what came first, chicken or egg.

It's also whose problem are we solving first?

Are we going to solve for communities where this is the anomaly of an outlier experience?

26:42

Or are we going to solve for the problem in communities where it's a more regular occurrence and we treat everything as a binary.

It's either for rather than digging deeper and asking ourselves how much of this is rooted in in a similar place.

And you know, I think we're having a hard time empathizing outside of our communities these days because of the lack of solution and because of the lack of true connectivity between our communities, right.

27:11

I won't pretend like there's ever been a time where, you know, let's say Highland Park in Englewood were very close in relationship with one another, because I'd be full of shit if I said that to you.

And the And you know, the reality is a community like Englewood on the South side of Chicago is in tremendous pain.

27:32

They are adversely impacted by gun violence on a daily basis and have been for many years.

But I'm reluctant to encourage dialogue about who's suffering is worse, right?

27:49

But if we knew each other, if we knew each other, would we be able to have different conversations?

You know, if people from communities like the one that were impacted yesterday in Highland Park were in closer relationship with the communities that experienced more frequent occurrences of gun violence, would there be greater compassion and empathy?

28:11

Would they be more aligned in helping one another solve these problems?

I think yes.

I think you hit on a few things like I and I just want to jump in here because the energy that I'm feeling off of this is tremendous.

First, when you talked about coalitions being helpful for Chicago, I think that while you pointed it out as like a Highland Park in Englewood, have never been particularly close.

28:36

Well, maybe that's a problem.

Maybe it's an opportunity also for a solution to start having better dialogue between remote suburbs who think they're isolated and insulated from what happens in the city, in areas that have specific stories to tell, and figure out how they could help each other cope with different issues.

28:58

When you and I were in Israel and we were at the tech center, that's.

I forget the name of the city but was near in the Gaza envelope, very close to the Gaza Strip.

One of the things that struck me is that they have programs specifically designed for kids who are not only dealing with PTSD but actively living in traumatic stress.

29:21

Because at any given day rockets can go go off and they have 15 seconds to get to shelter when they hear those sirens.

While I was sitting there hearing what's going on, I thought, How cool would it be if we could develop a program where members of cities in the United States that are live where they have youth living in active trauma and active stress disorder could go to Israel and learn what they're doing.

29:48

And kids from Israel could come to Chicago or come to Baltimore or come to other places where there's similar but different circumstances and just how close that could bring 2 seemingly different groups of people.

I think it's a great thing to do locally, but you are also starting to talk about this idea with narratives of of just people not being close and not having community.

30:12

Talk to me a little bit about what else you think could help bring people closer, and what could foster a better sense of community.

Yeah.

You know I I know we just scratched the surface about this this ideating that you've been doing with our experience in at the Gaza envelope and I think it's you know I I look at people like Pastor Chris Harris in Chicago who's done work to bring that type of trauma response to Chicago.

30:48

But we can, we can do so much more, right?

If we if we follow Pastor Harris's lead and look at how each of us can make an influence in the communities that we belong to.

And I think that's the first place, right?

31:04

Like, not all of us have a platform like Pastor Harris, who's an incredible leader in Chicago's lucky to have him, as is his congregation.

But each of us have our own communities, whether it's, you know, the five friends that you have dinner with every other Saturday or it's a whole company that you run or leader board leadership that you hold at a non profit.

31:28

And I think it starts there and asking ourselves who's in this room and who's not.

And when we evaluate who's not in the room, who's not at the table, whose voice is important for us to hear, not just hear but really internalized, then it's incumbent upon each of us as leaders to figure out how we build authentic relationships.

31:51

You know friend and collaborator of mine, Oren Jacobson, who is based in the Chicagoland area who's done a lot of work on male allyship and reproductive justice movements and also fighting anti-Semitism in spaces that exist across the country.

32:15

He talks about this quite a bit and models it better than anyone.

Show up.

Show up and not ask for anything from the people whose voices we want to hear.

Because there is a world in which we get into performative territory, right?

32:31

And it's like, oh, let's have coffee, I'll show up, and then I'll pretend like I've learned everything I need to learn about your community.

But it's but it's about showing up and showing up in a way where it's like, I'm just here to listen.

I'm just here to learn and to invite people to do the same.

32:49

But in this, really it has to start from here, right?

Like from the place of heart and believing that this is what's right and good because you would just want to see each other as fully human.

Well, and I'm drawn back to a statement you had made previously, this idea of people being in a lot of pain and not trying to judge whose pain is more significant, but just to see each other's pain.

33:15

One of the things I think this country struggles with is how do we help people in pain?

A lot of our national ethos has been, you know, come to this country seeking a better opportunity.

You're going to work hard and you're going to have a better life.

33:31

And that's been true for some, not true for others.

There's different origins of how people even come to this country, whether it's against their will or not.

But I think at the core of this country is a lot of neglected pain along racial lines, along gender lines, along now, you know, transcending gender lines, you know, for people who don't identify with gender or have, you know, multiple identity would like, that's a whole world I'm still learning about.

33:58

But in thinking about why, I think it's even harder for America to move on from the gun issue when it looks like the rest of the world has figured it out.

I don't think our country has a really solid mission and vision today that people can just blindly buy into and feel like it applies to everyone.

34:18

I feel like there's so many people in pain in their own little unique communities that it's very easy to feel like America isn't a place for them anymore.

I guess me, I'm struggling a lot with this since coming back from Israel.

I I feel like I see people in really hard situations in Israel, like why would somebody want to live 15 seconds from potential active rocket fire?

34:40

Well, there's a really strong sense of belonging, purpose and mission.

And then I come back home and it feels like our country's moving backwards.

Reproductive rights are being taken away.

It seems like this is not a safe place to be a woman.

It seems like this is not a safe place to say you're in pain, because nobody really knows how to do anything with that.

35:02

I guess my, you know where I'm kind of taking this and curious for your thoughts is, do you first and foremost, do you see things differently?

Do you feel like there's a common mission or vision in America that maybe I'm I'm unaware of?

And in in regards to the pain, I mean what what do you think that that's a better way to kind of help people when they're in pain other than our our solution right now of just kind of work harder and get over it?

35:28

Yeah, the the Suck it up Buttercup approach to dealing with collective pain isn't one that we can continue to employ.

And, you know, I've been thinking a lot about this very topic recently because I was, you know, thinking back to my time in college where I was part of the student leadership and the Students for Social Justice club at school and on my college campus.

35:58

We, you know, this is totally going to date me, but we were still very, very early in our engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And any university that receives public funding from the federal government has to allow the armed forces to recruit on campus.

36:18

And one of the activities that Student for Students for Social Justice would do was, you know, we would call it counter tabling where we would set up a table next to the armed forces recruitment recruitment table and offer perspective about what the foreign conflict was actually about.

36:42

You know, I'm with the gift of hindsight.

I'm not certain if that was the most effective thing we could have done, but it was what we did at the time and as angsty 19 year olds do.

And what was interesting is one of my student for Social Justice Co members, my friend Ryan.

37:03

He's an incredible human, had done two tours of active duty in Afghanistan before coming home and coming to, going to school.

And he was one of our most vocal proponents for the counter tabling activities.

And it was always such a privilege when I got to sit with him and hear him engage in dialogue with the members of the Armed Services that were there to recruit.

37:26

Right.

Because the conversations that we'd inevitably have and that Ryan helped me learn how to have were not about our points of difference, not starting there but aligning on what did we believe in as Americans.

Right.

And universally you know and this is a time when George Bush was president and the the anti Bush people were really vocal and about that there could be no one worse than George Bush which LOL for many of us.

37:54

Right.

But you know Ryan really taught me and those conversations taught me that in that time period, even when there was great animus between Republicans and Democrats and there was a deep divide around our engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan, in many ways we all wanted the same thing, right?

38:16

We wanted democracy to prevail within our borders.

We wanted freedoms for people around the globe.

We wanted prosperity for every person who called America home.

Did they have education?

Did they have access to opportunity?

38:32

Was there a pathway for them to live a really good life and raise a family and not suffer the difference?

The point of difference came in, well, how do we get there right?

Like there was often big daylight there in terms of strategically, how do we get there.

But we all shared this identity of being Americans, being American first, caring about our people because we all saw each other by and large as fellow Americans.

39:01

And when I think about that experience and where we are today, I don't know that we necessarily want entirely different things for the for the majority of us, right.

We've got a couple of we've got some very vocal actors on political extremes who are espousing wildly different visions for America.

39:21

But the vast majority of us still want those same things.

We want every American to have the opportunity to thrive here, education, a home, the means to provide for, for their families, to be able to have families.

But we, we don't have that shared national identity the way that we did, because now we see each other as adversaries within our borders.

39:48

And if we could restore a relationship where we saw people who had different political ideologies, and I'm not.

So Pollyanna is just to believe like this is going to be easy or that everyone can and should come to the table like this.

Because there are some ideologies I will never validate, and whose motives and whose motives are genuinely evil.

40:12

The vast majority of Americans are good people, but we don't live out.

We don't step outside of ourselves, we don't step outside of our bubbles, and we don't have that kind of thoughtful dialogue.

It's like hey, before I shut down and decide I'm not willing to listen to anything you have to say, even if I know I'm not going to agree with the vast majority of it, how can I show up and listen to at least understand why you believe what you believe?

40:35

How do we find that common point and how do we restore some sense of national unity around like hey, this is what it means to be American.

And like here, here are the principles and not have them Co opted by political agendas or political parties.

40:52

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I think that's really well said.

Most days I'm in the exact same mindset as you.

Just lately I'm having a hard time shaking this, this feeling of like a real lack of identity in this country.

You know, one of the things that I think it's been really powerful for me lately is in seeing the vast majority of the people I know speaking out about what's happening like Roe versus Wade, the vast majority, even friends of mine who are very conservative and like I don't, I don't align with the political party.

41:30

I'll even say back in the second grade and then I think 6th grade I was very pro voting for George Bush Junior and I would have voted for him again if I could.

Most of his politics were in alignment with mine.

I didn't realize how inept and how many other people were really behind the show and all that.

41:50

But I I didn't vote for Barack Obama, but I would have rather had him for a third term than Trump.

I guess my point is that I've lacked a lot of confidence in leadership today and seeing what's happening with Roe V Wade.

Most people I know who are even conservative and pro-life are still baffled at how it feels like we're going backwards.

42:15

It feels like women have fewer rights.

I don't know what that experience has been like for you.

I'm certainly curious to know, know what it's like going on in your world.

I know that my wife is extremely educated, very smart, knows a lot more about a lot than I do, and she's talking about all of the medical reasons why this needs to be protected purely to protect the women having the pregnancies.

42:44

I think it's become this issue where it's like, should a woman be able to kill a baby if she wants?

And like, it's not, It's not really what we're talking about anymore here.

So I just kind of wanted to understand what your experience has been and and kind of to you know, provide some context for me.

Yeah, similarly, like I do have a number.

43:03

Even though my politics, it's very well documented that my politics are very left of center, or at least moderately left or center, depending on who you ask.

People will have different views.

But I do have a universe of conservative friends and family members too, and and even the ones who morally wouldn't subscribe to the choice of terminating a pregnancy are horrified by this reality.

43:32

That and the data shows that vast majority of Americans do believe in reproductive freedom because you know there's the anti choice agenda has done an incredible job of painting this narrative that abortion is murdering babies.

43:51

And the reality is reproductive Healthcare is exactly that.

It's healthcare.

And often times when we're talking about choice, the choice is your life or the life of an unborn, not even in, not even a fetus.

44:08

It's usually an embryo or zygote at that point, right?

Like it's so far beyond viability or so far before viability outside of the womb.

And we're seeing stories unfold.

Now, you know, I'm not certain how active you are on Twitter, but what we're hearing about happening in cities around the country, in states where there were immediate repeal laws on the books once this decision was handed down, are women who are having ectopic pregnancies, which are very dangerous to the health of the mother and are absolutely not viable outside of the womb.

44:45

Right.

Like the baby is growing in the fallopian tubes.

Right that.

Yeah, my wife told me about that.

I didn't even know that was a thing.

I mean, how many, how many men who voted on taking this right away from women even really get that?

I'd argue many don't, right?

45:02

And that's a failure of our health, of our education system, that people are, you know, moving into adulthood without basic understanding of how our bodies work.

But you know, the reality is that there are so many different, and that's just one example, right?

45:18

There are so many different medically necessitated reasons for terminating.

And it's not even terminating a pregnancy.

It's this pregnancy isn't viable and it's a medical procedure.

Termination makes it sound like it's a a choice that you're making.

45:34

But the real choice is do I want to live or not?

But even outside of that, I mean, I believe that a woman's body is a woman's body.

And I'd love love for, you know, the people who believe in bodily autonomy when it came to masks and vaccines to see, to hear them talk about bodily autonomy for women right now.

45:56

Makes no sense.

I mean, if we can just pause for a second, can we just acknowledge that half of these party lines today make no sense because they're directly contradictory of each other, like from a core value perspective?

Yeah, I I can't wrap my brain around it.

46:16

And there's a big difference between public health and an individual choice.

You know, there where individual choice effects public health and where individual choice impacts you and your your partner or spouse and your family.

They're very different things, but it is it does feel like a step backwards in many regards where you know, I'm not certain if this was your experience while we were abroad or in any of your other recent travels.

46:47

I know you've been in a couple of other countries over the past few months, but certainly in my travels it is very strange to meet people from other countries and have them express their sympathy for what you're going through as an American.

47:07

Because if you think back ten years ago, that wouldn't have happened when you traveled abroad.

And now we are on the receiving end of sympathy.

The way the world sees us is as a declining power where the IT is not a safe country to go to, you know.

47:23

And the power that we exert in the world is unfounded when we can't get our own house in order, and I don't know what we do with that.

Well, you know, a few things I think are fascinating there.

47:40

I'm always somebody who goes places that people say, hey, be careful there.

And sometimes it's because I'm surrounded by overly cautious people.

But what's wild is 2 months ago when I'm chatting with Rick, I talk about how my grandma's always like be careful, be careful.

47:56

And I'm like, well, when's the last time you've been South of Morton Grove?

You know, talking to me about what's going on in Chicago.

Meanwhile, now, between podcast episodes, there's been a mass shooting 10 minutes for my grandma's house.

So now I have to worry about her being careful, theoretically.

But people laugh.

48:13

They don't get it.

I always tell people I feel safer in Israel than I feel in the United States because I know the threat in Israel, I know the risk I'm taking.

And it still feels like there's very clear terms and there's very clear understanding of when and where violence might happen and why in America.

48:32

I think it's scary because it's it doesn't.

There's no logic anymore.

You know, you can you can have somebody who shoots up an elementary school and not understand why on earth they did that.

I mean, what What's the logical reason for that?

Now, you could also argue there's no logical reason for terrorist activity that happens in Israel.

48:52

But logically, I get it, you're there's another side that fundamentally disagrees with Israel's right to exist, sees it as a colonial settlement, wants it gone, We'll do whatever it can by any means necessary.

There's a logic there.

But the violence in America seems so irrational and so disjointed and without much real purpose.

49:13

I would argue that it's extremely unsafe from that perspective and to to your point about going places and experiencing sympathy, I think what I'm starting to realize is that after a while, if you don't have that mission, if you don't have that vision, if you're not looking out for all of us, things are bound to go wrong.

49:38

Kind of take this back to the the business perspective of what we talked about earlier, what mission and vision and this idea of value driven companies, mission driven companies are the ones who seem to be doing really well.

I know it's kind of a weird segue, but talk to me a little bit about your thoughts around mission and vision and shared culture and and how important do you think it is for thriving organizations, whether they be countries or they be companies?

50:08

If you're not certain what you're setting out to achieve, it's really hard to enroll people in getting on board.

You know, when I think about the companies that we work with, right, our early stage ventures, they're usually precede through Series A, sometimes a bit after Series A.

50:27

But for all intents and purposes, it's not like they're planning to IPO in the next 18 months, right?

Like these are early stage companies and they are trying to get to the place where they're growth stage companies and onboarding hundreds of new employees in service of that big liquidity of that.

50:47

And you know, if purely from a team building standpoint, right?

Like you don't have a vision of what the world ought to be and the mission of how you and your company are going to bite off a chunk of that and help actualize that global vision.

51:05

It's really hard to get people to get on board with you as you think about how you staff up.

But I also think about it from a product market fit lens, right?

I always tell our companies that the goal is to be in a relationship with your user, with that end user who opens your app or opens the SAS platform every day.

51:28

It's a bit like dating though.

I've been with my husband for 14 years, so maybe things have changed.

But you know, when you date someone, you show up, you listen to them, and then on the next date you do something or show up in a way that shows that you were really present with them the last time you were together, right?

51:47

So if you go on a first date with someone and they tell you that they're allergic to cats, and then on the second date you take them to a cat cafe, you're not coming back for date three, right?

They're just not.

And so yes, vision and mission are important and it's the day-to-day things that we do to be listening to both our, our team members who've joined us as employees on the journey and said, yes, I will help you build this thing.

52:13

But it's also listening to that end user who we need to be in relationship with our product and using it on a daily basis paying for that use.

We need to be listening and we need to be showing that we're listening by the way that we transform our product and our marketing based on those inputs.

52:30

I like.

I think that was it was a great, great direction.

You took that when thinking back to how I I try to practice active listening A because I'm married and it just helps.

B, because a lot of the roles I've had throughout my career have been people facing and requires people that have faith and confidence that I understand what matters most to them.

52:53

One of the things that's always mattered to me has been my support of Israel.

I think it's mattered to me for different reasons at different times in my life.

I'm curious to know how that looks like for you given your your circles of of all the the either very left of center or moderately left of center.

53:16

For the most part, it's not really cool left of center to support Israel.

What what's that experience like for you today and how do you navigate that?

Well, I would be an absolute liar if I said it was easy to hold those two things to be true.

53:31

At the same time to have a really liberal ideology in this country and also support Israel, it's it grows increasingly more difficult.

But what I have found is that in the thoughtful one-on-one conversations you have with people, give us the gives people the opportunity to hear you and to hear them and dispel notions, you know, tying back to some of our earlier conversations around America, right?

54:00

Like I always say, I don't think America is a perfect nation.

Far from it, actually.

And I criticize it pretty frequently.

But that criticism isn't an absence of love for my nation or pride in being an American.

I criticize America because I want it to succeed.

I try and generate solutions for how we make America better because I want it to succeed.

54:21

You know, that's part of being part of a national identity, right?

Having having a homeland.

And when I have conversations with people about Israel, really smart and also very well-intentioned, justice minded people who are in my political circles, I I think it's fair to validate some of the criticisms that they have of Israel.

54:52

Because there are often things that I question too.

But there tends to be a gap for a number of the people in my life who maybe don't know as many Jewish people or haven't had the chance to have these one-on-one conversations about first and foremost, what does it even mean to be Jewish, right.

55:09

Like some of the things that I've heard are that, you know, a religion shouldn't get a country right.

It's like, OK, that's fair.

But we're not a religion, right?

Like we are.

We are an ethnic minority that has a religious component.

55:26

But regardless of whether or not you practice the faith, you still get an DNA test back that says you're like 60% Jewish.

You're never going to get Adna test back that says you're 60% Episcopalian, Right.

And So what does that mean?

It means we're not a religion, We're a bloodline.

55:43

We're a people that have had historic ties to a land over the course of thousands of years and there's never been a time period where we weren't in the land, right.

So it's it's a lot of explanation and I'm packing around like what is it even mean to be Jewish before we can have a conversation about then the right to a homeland.

56:06

So I have had to learn patience and, you know, things that I didn't even fully understand until adulthood around what it means to be Jewish, right?

It's not just going to temple on Fridays or Saturdays.

56:22

It's not just starving yourself on Yom Kippur and wondering why we're doing this.

Again, because my grandma said so.

It really transcends that.

And if we don't understand it, it's hard to ask other people to understand it with us.

56:38

And I think that touches on our biggest struggle as Zionists, as is proud Jews who believe in Israel's right to exist is this idea.

How do you get other people to take the time to learn about and understand the nuance of a problem that they can afford to ignore?

56:57

And I think that's ultimately how any major conflict gets resolved, Is people intentionally stating, even though I have the ability to sit this one out, I'm not going to, I'm going to get in the conversation and I'm going to contribute to whatever a resolution looks like.

57:14

I think a perfect example in America of this really clear was when Colin Kaepernick took a knee.

I think what Colin Kaepernick taking a knee was about was about 1/2 of the country understanding, hey, the people playing this game are in pain because a lot of them have a shared experience that is traumatic and they really want to address that trauma right now.

57:42

And this is the only platform they have to do so.

And then there was this other half of the country.

That said, quite frankly, I don't give a shit about your trauma.

You're interrupting my enjoyment and you're getting in the right that I possess to ignore your problems.

57:58

Like that's what I think the conflict came down to.

There's a lot of specific things that people latched onto and and narratives that just kind of were manufactured, but I think it was one group of people saying hear me and another group saying I don't really give a shit to hear you.

So when thinking about that context, what do you think has been effective for getting people to listen to you and have some of those more significant conversations that involve getting in the weeds and and really learning and being open minded?

58:29

I think it goes back to something I said earlier around being in a relationship, right?

Like I can't show up on my neighbors doorstep and ask them to house me when my house burns down.

If I hadn't talked to them over the fence for 10 years.

58:45

Right.

Can't just show up when when the house is on fire.

And you certainly can't do it if their house burned down and you weren't there to help.

So I think it really does go back to this notion of what does it mean to be in the right relationship with people, right?

How are we showing up for an understanding, you know, for whatever we're experiencing?

59:05

More often than not someone holds an identity or a lived experience that hasn't.

That's fraught with its own challenges, right?

So I can't expect my neighbor to show up for me if I'm not also showing up for them.

And I think being in that type of relationship with folks where it's like, you know, if if you have a friend who's part of the LGBTQIA community, let's say, for example, and you aren't showing up for that fight with them, it's really hard to say.

59:38

I need you to hear me about why my people are misunderstood or suffering, right.

And not that I believe in quid pro quo, but it goes, it also goes back to what I was talking about, about being in community with people, right?

It's how are we hearing each other?

How are we showing up for each other's pain, as you said, and how are we doing so?

59:59

Doing so in a way that's rooted in compassion right there is a.

Piece a couple of years ago in Harvard Business Review that talked about the evolution of empathy is compassion right?

Empathy is also observing and trying to understand what's happening in someone else's life.

1:00:16

Compassion is I have empathized with you and I am now a Co conspirator and trying to solve this with you.

And so taking that step in our relationships in an ongoing way, it makes it easier to say to someone when you see you know your friend posts something that is unintentionally anti-Semitic you've built trust they know and love you you know and love them.

1:00:45

You can have a conversation that's not rooted in anger but that's like hey I love you.

I know you love me can I tell you why?

Like can I tell you how I hear or interpret that tweet.

You know, it's it's fundamentally different than being like fuck you.

You know it.

1:01:01

It changes the entire conversation.

Well, and you, you talked about this idea of compassion.

A lot of what I'm drawn to in Buddhism is this idea of cultivating awareness so that way we can be kinder and compassionate to ourselves and kinder and compassionate to those around us in a way where it takes a lot of the judgement out of what's happening.

1:01:26

This idea of observing something and rather than labeling it, just seeing it for what it is, and then transcending that to something else.

And I'm sure other practitioners can dive into more more beautiful detail there.

But I think that for me, that's a lot of the core of how I view the world.

1:01:47

And when I see something happening, my first thought process is, well, what's it like for the people?

That's happening too.

And then why might the person doing the thing be doing it?

So I'm always trying to understand and and and have that empathy.

I guess where that next challenge for me is, How do I cultivate the compassion and how do I then step inside that with them to aid wherever it needs to go.

1:02:12

You've been very gracious and kind with your time, so I I definitely want to respect that.

I wanted to make sure I asked this question before we wrapped up, but I have a few questions.

But one of the first one on my list is outside of all the roles you play, whether it's the CEO, the person involved in in charity work, non profit, community work, wife, sister, Sid, all those roles.

1:02:42

What do you find to just be meaningful at the personal level?

That if you didn't, you didn't have a society and obligations within society.

Just what were the things you would do just for the joy and the love?

Like what would be your much love that you you just do that fills you inside?

1:03:02

Well, my relationship with my books.

I love books, so that brings me joy always.

And which I think you know, you touched on earlier.

Love my books, but you know, and it it actually ties exactly into what I do in these other roles.

1:03:19

And even if they didn't, even if it didn't, I would still do it.

I love to bring people together.

There's nothing that brings me greater joy than filling a room with people that I love for different reasons and having them collide with one another in different, interesting ways.

1:03:36

And I was having this conversation on Sunday with a with a good friend of mine about who I was in high school and how I used to throw these epic house parties that would bring together kids from like 8 different schools and have a DJ and we'd have A tag.

1:03:52

Sorry, Mom, but we were doing this every single weekend.

And you know, it's not like I got rich from throwing these house parties, but I grew rich in friendship.

And there were all these incredible people that I knew from these eight different schools in different ways, who knew incredible people And to see what would happen when you put them in a space.

1:04:12

And the ideas about like, who, who else should be here and what else can we do outside of these parties?

And like, how can we help each other?

And like, what kind of random mischief or like good stuff can we get into Together was one of my favorite things about high school and the way that's manifested in every season of my life since, because it always comes up in some way, brings me tremendous joy.

1:04:38

Well, Annette just touched something special in my heart and Think shows ways in which you and I are connected.

I loved house parties.

In high school especially.

We always had those random groups coming together.

But when I got to college, it was depressing because it felt like it was just people getting drunk in the same room.

1:04:57

And there's there's that creative, intentional community that gets built as opposed to like, I I mean, I've been sober since before I could even go to a bar legally.

So I'd like I I go to a bar and I don't.

I don't get it at all.

I don't understand why people are drawn there.

1:05:13

But I guess that that intentionally cultivating a community, a question I ask people every episode, is we never know where this platform's going to go and who this is going to reach.

But who's somebody you would love to connect with Anywhere, Anyone.

1:05:30

And why?

What would what would you hope to?

To gain or learn or or enjoy their presence.

Oh my gosh.

If anyone who listens to this conversation knows Adam Grant, that is my.

1:05:46

That is like the person high on my list of humans I'd love to spend time with right now.

And I'm not certain how many people are acolytes of Adam Grant, because those of us who really enjoy his work really enjoy his work.

But he does such a remarkable job of talking about the human experience and the human condition and what his sociological work shows us about people in a way that informs how we should be thinking about the organizations that we built, the way we lead teams, the way we structure our companies.

1:06:22

And I just think very highly of him and his work.

And I would love to learn about the things that make him curious and where his curiosity has taken him in a way that I probably am not currently getting from his Twitter and Instagram posts.

Sure.

1:06:38

So everybody listening, please connect Ellie with Adam Grant.

That would be awesome.

Outside of Adam, is there a a mission?

Is there an event?

Is there a a thing, a goal, a bucket list item that that's been on your mind or on your heart lately that you'd also like to put out there into the world?

1:07:01

Well, for anyone who is local to the Chicagoland area, I am a big advocate for an organization called Personal PAC.

You can learn more about them at personalpac.org.

Many moons ago they saw fit to have me on their board of directors, though I'm no longer involved in that way.

1:07:21

But they are an incredible organization that is working on reproductive advocacy in terms of policy and elected representation here in Illinois.

And for all intents and purposes, Illinois is really one of the few places left in the Midwest where reproductive true reproductive Healthcare is available to birthing parents and I'd like to keep it that way.

1:07:52

So would advocate for people to learn more about their work and and support in whatever ways they see fit.

Absolutely.

I love it.

So there we go.

We've just put that out into the world.

Any questions you have for me or things that you think I should be diving into or learning a little bit more about based on our chat today?

1:08:14

I'm really curious for you, Nate.

When you think about what the highest and best version of our region looks like, what what would be the hallmarks of a truly thriving Chicagoland area?

I think first and foremost some sort of reconciliation around our our history of redlining policies.

1:08:40

To me, it's no, I don't know how to put this.

When I look at how Germany handled their cleanup of the Holocaust and their their owning of it, they're banning Nazism and they're making amends to Israel.

1:09:01

I had a German Holocaust lit teacher who I could feel the sorrow and the contrite nature of of his tone.

Whether or not you feel like Germany can ever make up for the Holocaust, they've at least done something about it.

What I've always felt has been left unsaid and unaddressed in Chicago is how the between the suburbs in different parts of the city, it's extremely racially segregated and nothing has been done to really fully address and reconcile that fact.

1:09:33

I don't think until something has been done in a meaningful way that our region will ever thrive to the level it should.

Because I think it's a it's a trauma and it's a permanent splinter that until removed, addressed and healed will keep us from thriving.

1:09:52

I love that.

I hope that someone in a position to influence that reconciliation.

Here's your vision.

Thank you.

This has been a marvelous time.

I'm excited to see where further faster goes.

1:10:11

I I know we're filming this on the on the heels of Chicago Tech Week.

I'm excited to see what comes of that and most importantly just excited for personally our our friendship to continue to grow.

Thank you for for joining the show.

1:10:27

And it's just it's been a real pleasure for me, Ellie.

Likewise Made I really appreciate the invitation and the space to fumble through today's conversation.

There's certainly not the headspace I was hoping to be in for our time together, but I appreciate your grace and your friendship.

1:10:45

Yeah, likewise.

I think it's important to to show up even when we don't want to.

So it's been a real treat.

Thanks for joining us audience and much love.