0:00

Hello everybody, and welcome to a very special episode of the Much Love Podcast.

I'm your host, Nate Ruben, and I'm here today with my very good friend Cole Connor.

What's up?

I'm Cole.

I'm happy to be here.

Thanks for having me, man.

You're here.

And I'm happy, if you haven't noticed, to be in a different studio that is not the one you're used to.

0:19

So I'm happy you're having me as a guest in your studio, to be a guest on my podcast.

Is a beautiful thing and we just did a podcast.

I don't know what will come out first, but we have two podcasts.

Most likely Cole's, because yeah, I've got two in the can before this one and I've been very slow to edit yes.

0:36

So check out the No Niche Podcast if you haven't already do.

It do.

It so I want to just jump right into something very current.

Your most recent project is Asian Chicken Salad, You and Bernice.

Yi Bernice, She says she has a She says something about you.

0:54

Say yes.

Like Kanye Bernice.

Yeah.

Bernice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

OK.

OK.

Yeah.

OK.

It's Bernice.

Yeah.

Hey.

Hey, check it out.

Asian chicken salad.

Yes.

What was the back story?

How did you get involved?

OK, so this has been a journey.

I met Bernice in acting class and as soon as I met her she had this like super bubbly positive attitude.

1:14

So I was drawn to that and her husband happened to be from Charleston, SC I'm from Sumter, SC We had that connection and we just hung out, all of us, a couple times and we started talking about goals for the new year and they're very like goal oriented people.

1:31

And she was like, I want to make, I'm so sorry.

I thought, was he chewing on?

He's chewing like a bone or something.

For those who can't, oh, it's the ice cube.

It's an ice cube.

Cole's got a dog and he's got a a lot of energy and he's doing his thing.

1:47

Right now.

He's devouring an ice cube.

Yes, he is.

But continue.

Yes.

Goals.

Yeah, goals.

And she was saying that one of our goals was to get into music.

I told her that I was a rapper and pretty much she sent me a bit.

So something that she'd performed that had done really well went viral on YouTube.

2:02

She has a really big not YouTube.

On TikTok and Instagram she has a very big following and she sent me the bit.

I found a beat.

I wrote a song from the bit, which was kind of a fun process in general.

So I pretty much made it rhyme.

Told a similar story but created a character for myself.

2:20

She came here and we recorded a rough then we, you know, you know did the whole song.

She raised $5000 for a music video, which was huge.

We had a really amazing crew and she worked really so hard to make it happen.

2:35

Music videos done really well.

We had a release party and the song is pretty much about how would I, how would you explain it, What is it from your perspective actually?

To me, there it's it's there's a surface level of what the song's about, and then there's a deep level.

2:54

The surface level is an Asian lady gets run into by some white people who are like, hey, bring a dish to a dinner, why don't you make an Asian chicken salad?

And it's her going down this rabbit hole of like, how what what's an Asian chicken?

I'm Asian.

I don't know what this Asian chicken salad is and it's her going through this journey of making the salad.

3:13

But to me, what I thought was below the surface was it was a really fun social commentary of like things that we can project onto other cultures and other people that if we don't really know them well or have intimate dynamics or relations that everyone could be a part of.

3:30

And it felt very much like how certain Chappelle show skits used to feel where everyone was part of the joke.

There were there were a lot of different people in on the joke and it just seemed fun.

It was very fun and that is that's exactly right.

You said it even better than I could have said it, so thank you for doing that.

But yeah, it's so cool to be able to work on something that was fun and was funny, but it did have that deeper social commentary and just all these different races coming together just to have fun.

3:55

It makes something fun.

It's a it's a beautiful thing.

And the large part of the crew was also Asian, which is really cool.

So yeah, I was just happy to be a part of it.

So if you're watching this on YouTube, don't feel ashamed.

You can pause right now, go to the description and hit the Asian Chicken Salad music video.

4:12

Watch it so you understand the context of what we're talking about and I think you'll enjoy it.

And if you're on Spotify, if I ever get to putting all my episodes on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and all that stuff, when it's safe, you know, If you're not driving, go check out the music video.

Stay.

Safe.

But back to you, Cole.

4:29

You've had a really fucking interesting career.

And I I don't, I don't swear a lot on the show, but I say it for for a reason, because I want to emphasize how interesting it's been.

Talk to people briefly about what are some of the pit stops you've had and what have you loved about the process?

4:48

Yeah, man, lot of pit stops.

That's not saying there's been a lot of pit stops.

I feel like that.

But that's also part of what I love about the journey.

Kind of of being an artist, you know, being a rapper, started 17.

5:04

That was like a really big thing to do from where I come from.

And it wasn't really accepted and trying to be that for a long time.

But discovering other pieces of myself, whether it's songwriting and the comedy stuff or acting, I've been doing that a lot more in the making YouTube videos.

5:21

I make all type of stuff and skits.

You discover more.

But I think what I love the most is that I make all these pit stops and then I and I keep going.

I think a lot of times people like stop, I feel like, so pit stops for a second.

5:38

Are we talking like, like failures?

Are we talking like going off in different directions?

No, I think just pulling, pulling over on the journey and either staying in one place for a while or going in a different direction and then coming back and and I'll kind of hook it to my journey in a second.

5:53

But when I I use the word pit stop kind of casually, but maybe you've you've traveled many roads and what some of those roads have been.

OK, cool.

There's yeah, there's been a lot of roads.

So quick.

You know what I've what I've done is I was a rapper then I was just doing regular side hustle jobs.

6:13

I started doing real estate photography and that became how I make my money.

As you know we both kind of did the marketing agency thing for a while.

I did that to make some money, but I always was rapping and the business started to really take control.

6:29

And that is definitely a pit stop.

Where I felt as a creative and that was really important to me, was to make money doing something that's still kind of creative real estate photography.

And then put that money back into my creative stuff and be able to make higher quality music and high quality videos.

6:46

And I feel like that was the journey for a long time and a long time is in, you know, 3-4 years until I decided to move out here and this has just been, it's just even more discovery man.

You just learn.

I'm learning so much more about myself and I'm learning that I'm much more.

7:02

I used to think I was only a rapper.

I guess all I was and then I was like, maybe I'm just like a rapper, businessman.

And now I'm just like I'm an artist.

I just, I like all types of art and I love acting has become.

I'm very passionate about it because it's it's similar to all the other stuff, but it's like a different side of me.

7:20

I don't get to explore with with music or with business.

Did I answer your question?

You did and you answered me very well.

I almost feel like I LED you there, you know, telekinetically probably did, because what you're describing I often find, is the Artists Journey.

And there's actually a really good book called The Artists Way, which has helped me quite a bit.

7:40

But what I like about The Artists Journey is learning to live artfully where we don't have to.

There's pardon this pun, but you're literally wearing a hat.

We don't have to wear these hats of like I am Nate Rubin, businessman, you are Cole Connor rapper, We are marketers.

8:00

You know, all of those are just things we do.

They're they're ways we show up in the world, but they don't define us.

And I think the common thread between how both of us try to be in the world is living very artfully.

So it's it's kind of been beautiful to be a witness to your journey and see all the different ways you've gone in.

8:20

All of it rooted, coming from a place of art.

You talked about most recent acting.

Yeah.

How's that process going?

Talk to me about it.

Yeah, this has been acting is it's difficult, man.

It's First off, you you move here to a city where it's all about acting, which is one of the main reasons why I moved here and you have to survive first.

8:40

It goes back to like the survival part.

So you really can't do anything until you've, you know, get your feet settled and you figure out, you know your, your money situation.

So that's like a mental thing that you have to get past.

But then there's so many roadblocks and so many gatekeepers and people don't tell you how the industry works.

9:00

Really.

There are some people on YouTube which I kind of try to be the same type of person.

Like once I learn something like let me tell you because it's actually really difficult to learn.

So it's.

I would say I've been here about two years and just for the past probably more like 9 months.

9:16

I feel like I'm learning the game of acting because it is pretty much a game and it's it's overwhelming it's and I'm not even talking about the acting.

I'm talking about the.

Everything that goes into being able to do the acting.

Yes, exactly, and it's it's.

9:35

I'm used to failing a lot, but acting is just a whole nother level.

Like you could be a a good looking, fit, amazing actor.

It just it doesn't matter.

You're going to fail a million million times because they're looking for a specific thing, but you put your heart and soul into these auditions.

9:53

Sometimes you get no auditions for months, sometimes you get 5 in a week and then you have to figure out how to put your heart and soul into the auditions.

You have to edit self tapes which already know how to do, which is totally great.

But some people you have to learn how to do that.

And then sometimes you have to go in person and fail, which is hard to you have to look someone in the eye, do your scene and then they say OK thanks and then you never hear from them again and then you have to try to you get management or you won't get real roles.

10:20

I mean there's there's a whole lot of things you can go down.

But I digress.

In general, the most rewarding thing has been not not quitting and doing the classes because what the classes do is connect you to community.

10:36

And so I've been able to build like Bernice, like my friend Pat who started doing skits together.

You build real connections with these people that can't really be explained.

I feel like you might understand from maybe like a yoga type retreat or something.

10:53

But specifically, my last class, it was in person.

It was Meisner and Elizabeth Mesnick was the was the teacher.

And man, it was.

You learn so much about each person like they're in their soul because you have to bear your soul to be an actor.

11:10

And you you have to be, like, authentic, but just kind of living in an imaginary circumstance.

And to see all these people grow from, like day-to-day week to week and bear themselves and then be vulnerable with your classmates, it it just like this special connection that I can't really explain.

11:27

That's interesting because I think from an outsider's perspective, it would be easy to assume being a really good actor would have nothing to do with soul.

Because some people, it's like you're playing pretend, yeah.

And so having nothing to anchor to you, but being able to anchor to somewhere else.

11:44

I think maybe that's just super empathetic or the ability to to really picture.

But I don't know shit about acting.

I've been I've been an extra in a film, which I'd like to do more of, or even have, like small speaking parts where I'm like the the guy who moves the drink and says The funny thing, and then I'm gone.

12:03

But it's 'cause I don't, I don't actually want to do the work of, like becoming a serious actor.

I just want to be part of making a movie 'cause it's fun.

It's very fun.

Yeah, I totally get that.

And I think people would assume that, and I probably have assumed that in my life, that acting pretty much is that it's easy, that anyone can do it.

But at the basic level, you have to be able to be vulnerable, which is really difficult for I think, a lot of people.

12:25

But then even further than that, you have to pretty much connect.

This is actually kind of in the acting world.

I think it's controversial, but connect with pain that you've had before or happiness or excitement.

And yeah, it just, it takes a certain level of like emotional intelligence and and vulnerability.

12:46

I think most people aren't willing to like, really get there.

That makes sense, yeah.

I'm.

I'm a big fan of Shia LaBeouf and if you watch the I think honey boy was the biopic loosely around his life and he plays his dad.

Yeah.

13:01

Which I think is so cool on so many levels.

So we talk about that pain.

He's one of those method guys that.

Yeah, I mean I'd go watch the movie if you haven't seen it but it was such an experience.

Oh dude, it's.

I watched that a couple years ago.

13:17

That one really got me.

I just watched Peanut Butter Falcon.

I haven't seen that either.

Such a good movie.

Yeah, I I love movies.

So there's they're like a big way of how I I chill, I unwind.

I was just talking with somebody who recently said movies are a way I get myself to cry when I know I need one, but I can't connect to what's going on inside.

13:38

And I went, holy shit, I've never thought about it that way.

Yeah, that's very interesting.

But I I tear up all I teared up at the end of old dads and like that's not even like that deep of a movie.

Yeah, that's funny that you said that, cuz I actually feel like I avoid movies that make me cry, but I'm not.

13:55

I cry I think often in life in general.

So it's kind of like the opposite, which is interesting, but if I don't feel like getting there, I'm like, yeah.

I've become that way with not wanting too painful of movies to watch.

There you go.

Because it's hard.

14:10

Like a lot of things come up.

I care very much about all kinds of people, but since a young child, I've always cared about civil rights, struggle, movies and things about specifically the black experience in America.

But I got to a stage where when certain movies were coming out, I just couldn't do it anymore because I didn't want to a, like, fetishize that pain or BI didn't.

14:33

I didn't want to go like I could.

I would really want to see Fruitvale Station.

Yeah, because I've told it's a phenomenal film.

That's a good one.

I just don't want to see a movie where a cop shoots a guy in his back.

And like, it's hard to watch.

Yeah, yeah.

But T Asia and I just recently watched Black Klansmen.

14:49

It was my second time watching it.

Spike Lee directs it.

OK, OK And it's a hard watch.

Yeah, but he it just shows how great of a filmmaker Spike is because it's so beautifully done.

And for me, being Jewish, my wife being black, the subject matter having to do with the KKK and them specifically targeting blacks and Jews.

15:11

And there's, you know, there's a black cop and a Jewish cop working together.

It's just so much went on for me while watching that I really I can't let myself get into that place too often because I feel like I wallow in emotionalism.

Yes, I think that's the same reason why for me, yeah, I don't want to.

15:28

Or I guess the simpler way to put it is I just don't want to feel that deeply sad.

Yeah.

It's like, yeah.

I really get it.

Something you and I talked about earlier today that I think can make people deeply sad is what it's like to be in a interracial relationship when maybe family doesn't get it.

15:47

Or even worse, was rooting against that.

Yeah, definitely.

Talk to me a little bit about what your experience has been in that space and and kind of how you felt with that.

Yeah, so I do have to.

I tread carefully.

But I want to talk about why I tread carefully.

16:02

And for me personally, I've been with two Asian women.

And this is kind of what I was telling you is I haven't experienced too much of it on the Asian or like my parents, Not my parents, my family being racist towards Asians.

16:19

Just little jokes here and there.

Like I guess the joke, it doesn't really matter the jokes.

But so I've experienced a little bit and a little bit of weird comments and I was kind of telling you that I I don't, I don't get it.

16:35

But we were talking a little bit about how people grow up differently.

And you know, it is what it is.

But the reason I'm treading carefully is because my family has had a pretty much my my sister marrying a black man and they just had a baby and she's so beautiful and precious.

16:54

And my family just had had has had a long tumultuous tumultuous.

Is that the right.

Yeah tumultuous journey with with that And we're on the other side and I'm I might you know might come might come up again.

17:11

I don't know.

But so I don't want to say too much to where it's could restir any feelings or whatever, but I just know that is really beautiful to see people struggle with that, like family members, not be OK with it, But then to actually meet people and to actually see someone for who they really are, get over that and fight through their own demons.

17:35

Because it's not really about, you know, whether a person's black, white agent, whatever.

It's just something that they have going on in their head.

Well, and usually you and I were talking about, but it stems from some sort of upbringing.

Yes, no one is born racist, correct.

17:51

But I'm a firm believer it's a disease that is often genetically passed down and is a form of trauma and abuse to traumatize or abuse your children into seeing other people in this not just different way, but some superior way or some.

18:07

We're not meant to be together.

We're not meant to mix.

His differences are meant to be celebrated like my wife's.

Black.

I'm Jewish, we're different, and it's intentional.

I didn't want to be with somebody who is the same as me.

I wanted somebody to offer a new experience.

I wanted us to grow and expand.

18:22

I find myself and yeah, I don't know if it's purposeful or not, but I do.

If we take it as simple as swiping on a dating app or even just people, I see I am not as attractive to white women, especially here.

And I hate to say that publicly because I'm like, maybe I shouldn't.

18:39

And it's not that they are attractive, but I just do find myself if there's a hundred women, I'm just, they're not going to be the ones usually that I pick.

And that's OK to have a preference, Yeah.

Here at the Much Loved Podcast, we encourage everyone to be their authentic selves.

18:55

And there is nothing wrong with having preference.

Yes, So it's totally.

Like white women, too.

Let's be clear, I do like white women too.

I'm just saying they're not usually the ones that I pick.

Well, I I tend to gravitate towards a lot of entertainers who are white or Jewish who find themselves attracted to and in relationships with black women because it's very relatable like T Asia.

19:15

And I have seen Gary Owen, not Gary Owens, although a lot of people call him Gary Owens.

You know, Gary, if you're watching, I know there's no S we've seen him three times.

Well, he laughs.

He's like black people always add an S to my name and black people had S to a lot of people's names and but it was just funny and that's cultural and it's different.

19:33

But the The funny thing was T Asia and I almost like Stalk, where his relationship drama is gonna be and be like, what's this set gonna be like?

Yeah.

And I'd say it even goes so deep as when I was watching Old dads, I saw Bill Burr married to a white woman with white kids, and I was like, his wife'll black.

19:52

Now, obviously it's fucking acting like you're going to do all kinds of things, like in Brokeback Mountain, Those guys weren't gay.

Yeah, Would have been cool if they were like, you don't have to hire.

Like, I think sometimes people get so interested in like you have to have be representative of the role you're playing.

But it was weird.

20:07

Like, I almost felt this betrayal.

I'm like, why couldn't Bill be married to a black woman in the movie?

Interesting.

But anyways, I digress.

We all have preference.

We're gravitated to.

There's things we're attracted to.

A lot of times this comes up with just looks in general.

Yeah, I've always thought about looks as the cover letter.

20:25

And is your resume gonna get read or not?

Yeah, it's very superficial.

Yeah, but why are you gonna read a resume if you're not impressed with the cover letter?

Yeah, that's true cuz maybe they just can't write a cover letter anyways.

Those are excuses.

Can I go down something real quick please?

20:41

OK, so I am on these these dating apps.

I probably shouldn't be, but I'm on the dating apps and I see a lot of women and they say they are sapiosexual.

Do you know what that is?

No, this is new to me.

I I did just have a podcast episode with a woman who's pansexual.

I don't know what's sapiosexual.

20:58

Enlighten me please.

OK, I didn't look up pansexual.

I probably should have.

I saw that one.

Too.

Oh no, I'm sorry, I fucked up.

She's not pansexual.

She's in a polyamorous relationship.

So I did see that, Yeah.

I.

Don't wanna throw that out there, yeah.

So this is my brief understanding.

21:13

I googled it like a week and a half ago, but it was Sapiosexual is pretty much correct me if I'm wrong, but it's being turned on, meant like when you have a mental like pretty much I'm turned on by the fact that you're smart or I'm turned on by the fact that we have a great fun chemistry back and forth.

21:30

And I've realized that more and more is that yes, the look is the cover letter.

So there has to be like a bar, like I have to be attracted to you at a certain whatever.

But outside of that, I don't give a fuck if you're like a 10 out of 10.

If you're not that Sapiosexual that mentally turning me on, it's done.

21:48

I think that's hilarious that this generation decided we needed a term for having a depth of thought.

Yeah, yeah, like, keep like I'm attracted to someone I could hold a conversation with and somebody who stimulates me intellectually.

Oh yeah, I identify as Sapiosexual.

Like, great.

22:03

That's not it was it was news to me.

Yeah.

No idea.

I think it's just somebody trying to feel special for caring about what the person they talk to thinks That's.

Probably like.

You know, I I was at, I remember very explicitly the moment when I was dating my wife going, Am I just interested in her for what our physical relationship could be, or do I actually care about what she's saying?

22:24

I'm trying to be respected, or am I considering how she feels?

Do her thoughts matter to me other than what am I just going to respond with?

Am I trying to get to some outcome or do we just want to pass the time together?

22:41

Is there?

And I could be with a woman who doesn't have that for me.

So I guess, I guess I identify as Sapiosexual too.

But.

Respect.

Yeah, we're we're Sapio Bros.

Sapio Bros I.

Love that.

I want to go off in another direction.

That's really this, this idea around an artist who's evolving.

23:02

You've tried a bunch of different things.

Yeah, but inside, you mentioned needing to bear the soul.

We talked about it might be on your podcast.

It might be nice to take some time to reflect and to introspect.

What is it that you do to keep yourself on track with making sure that you're growing as a person with checking in on who is called today?

23:25

You know, how have I grown over the last year, three years, 10 years?

Do?

Do you have a process for that or is it just kind of like this organic thing you do?

You know, I think I've been a little bit of jealous of your.

I feel like you have a process for that which is really like your meditation that you do.

And I feel like I've seen you do that over the years.

23:42

I've wanted that.

But to be honest, I I don't, man.

I just, I I think a lot and I'm sure a lot of people think a lot, but I'm like really diving into my soul.

Like every fucking day I'm thinking probably unhealthy really sounds.

24:00

I'm I'm thinking like, why do I feel this way?

What is this feeling?

And I'm not afraid to go down any rabbit hole.

Why am I lazy today?

Do I deserve to be lazy today?

Am I not wanting to do photography because I'm bored with it?

24:17

Do I want to?

Do I really love acting or is it just exciting right now?

Do I love the woman I'm with or am I just in it for whatever?

Every day is just like a constant studying of myself and it I also stay very busy which I think it's kind of what I was insinuating before with I don't want to take time to not be busy So I can think even more and I think my busyness does influence my thoughts sometimes obviously.

24:48

But yeah so I guess I just don't have a process for it and but I'm but I'm always doing it to a pretty pretty big extent And I'm also making like these YouTube videos and I'm writing this music and I'm writing short films and I'm putting what I'm learning about myself in those things especially with the YouTube as I discover like I haven't really announced that I'm single like officially but I don't have a video.

25:11

I'm going to be like it's really for me but hopefully it helps people.

I'm like breaking down.

Why?

I think I'm single and having like my own therapy session and talking about it and being 30 and breaking up these long relationships with that.

What does that mean?

Like, is there some trauma I'm not dealing with?

25:27

I'm not afraid to go there and I I do think a lot of people are afraid to go that route.

But yeah, so I'm always doing it.

I guess that that that is my art.

I'm just like studying myself is kind of sounds selfish I guess, but that's what it is.

It well, to be a great artist often is very selfish, and there's nothing wrong with that, for sure, as long as you're honest and whoever's along for the ride knows that going in.

25:51

One of the things that you said that really struck me was just this as long as I'm willing to go down the rabbit hole and be honest with myself and see where this is coming from, why is it happening?

You know, I think there's a really fine line between overindulging and emotional neediness of like, I have to nurture every single emotion that comes up versus the puritanical.

26:15

Just do the work no matter how you feel.

Because yeah, doing the work, no matter how you feel might get you great results, but those results might not be in line with you spiritually and it might keep you further from the way you want to be in the world.

So I think you're that you're at least being critical about how do I, how do I make sure that I'm on the right path and how do I respect what is real for me today?

26:37

Yeah, that that's exactly right.

And I have had times where I have gone a little bit too far that direction where I used to.

I think it's my my mom and I I talk to my mom every day.

I'm one of those people and we were in my early 20s.

I definitely talked to her too much, I think where it was overwhelming.

26:55

And one of the things she said to me was, I think she said this.

I don't know who said it, but I hop on every, like my mind is a bus stop and I hop on every bus and I go every route on every bus as far as it goes.

27:11

And that was kind of unhealthy.

So balancing that, like neediness of that, so like, Oh my God, I have to, have to, have to, have to have to.

And I don't.

It's just the balance, I guess.

It's like you don't have to go so, so far.

Like at a certain point it's too much.

27:28

But yeah, but.

What you're also talking about, meditators will describe, is learning how to disengage with thoughts.

Because thoughts are not this end all be all like our thinking mind isn't the greatest version of our self.

So just because of thought comes, we don't have to observe that thought any more than just seeing it, identifying it and letting it be.

27:49

Yeah, A really good metaphor that helped me early on was thinking of our thoughts like boats passing on the water.

And we don't have to board every boat.

You could just be like, oh, that's a boat.

Yeah, exactly.

Was it you that told me that?

I don't know, man, but the buses, I don't know.

28:05

But yeah, that's exactly right.

And I think this kind of gets into a little bit of, like, anxiety because I've struggled with that a little bit.

But one of the things I've learned, this is more with social anxiety.

So it's kind of a different topic.

But I used to have so much social anxiety about events and things which I'm comparing to, like a thought bus or a thought boat.

28:26

I'll let myself be like, but this could happen, but this could happen, but this could, this could happen.

But I think when I just decided to turn that thought off, I'm like, I don't know what's going to happen.

Things could change.

I might not even go to this thing or this person.

Might not this person.

I do that with almost everything now that gives me anxiety.

28:44

So like doing a podcast, this gives me a little bit of anxiety typically, but I don't think about it.

And so right before and then I'm like, where's going to let it be?

And almost every single time, no matter what it is, it turns out good versus being like, I'm going to take notes.

I'm going to make sure we talk about this and do this and do this.

29:00

That really helps me.

And so I know which thought buses to not hop on.

Now that takes time.

You got to learn that.

I like that.

I also, I thought about when you mention you talk to your mom every day.

I used to talk to my parents a lot, and on your podcast we talked about friends and phone calls.

29:20

And one of the things that changed was being married.

And I found that when I was getting more serious in my relationship was when my parents marriage was ending.

And so, in a lot of ways, I stopped going to them over certain topics because quite frankly, neither one of them had what I wanted.

And and it was.

29:36

That's a good realization.

It was a tough thing to be like, no, I'm not going to talk about this with you because I've learned from you by watching how you've lived and what you've done and you've shared so much.

But right now, I don't really want what you have in that one area so that I would talk to certain other friends.

29:54

But then now being married, like when I talk to my wife about everything.

So the amount of people who kind of get that extra peripheral just might depend on who happens to get what on that day.

Yeah.

How have you managed to stay so close with your mom in that way?

Will you talk everyday?

30:10

And what is it that that closeness brings for you?

Makes me smile because I'm like, I've already sent this to you, mom, and I appreciate you for watching and I hope I answered this right.

So.

So OK, I think that my mom now knows that First off I don't do what she says which is a big thing and I don't feel like I have to do what she says which I think it's really important for like a parent child relationship and it as you both grow and I know I'm 30 year old man so I do whatever I want to do.

30:49

But some things, particularly I come to my mom and I'm like, I would like your advice as a 56 year old woman on this topic.

And majority of the time I listen and half the time I it's like, I get it, but no, I'm not going to do that.

And half the time I'm like, you know, actually that affected me.

31:04

That's one thing that I think has helped is we both understand that about each other and we don't have to get upset or whatever.

We have had to set some like boundaries where there's certain things, you know, I just don't talk about and she doesn't talk about.

So that's important, I think boundaries and respecting each other where we're at emotionally.

31:23

So she might have had a really hard week emotionally.

So I'm not going to go and just lay out everything on the table with her and I can feel her.

We know it.

I mean, just like your mom's son, you feel each other and it when you talk literally every day for a decade at this point.

31:40

And then of course we have conversations before then.

But at 20 we started talking pretty much every day.

So I know, like today I think we talked for three minutes.

I felt like she was busy.

I feel like I've been saying the same thing for like 6 days in a row.

So I was like, love you, hope you have a great day.

And then tomorrow we might start talking about something in the news and we talk for an hour.

31:59

You never know.

I feel like there's one other point I wanted to make, but I think that, yeah, the other main point, as a child talking to your parent, I think people, you know, you don't realize that your parent is an actual person for a while.

32:16

So that's a big thing.

So you just have to respect that.

They're they're human too.

And I think I treat her, I want to say more like a a friend most of the time.

So that way it's it's like you like I respect you and your boundaries and if you're bored talking, then we don't talk that type of thing, yeah.

32:36

I get that.

I like that.

I think that when I was a kid, I had to learn how to trust my parents, to talk about certain things because I was the kind of kid to keep it all inside.

And there was so much I kept inside that I didn't even realize I was keeping inside.

32:53

And when I was in my late teens, my dad and I were very adversarial.

I was so rebellious.

I was so angry.

I felt so constrained that when I got sober at like 20, a lot of my work in forgiving him was seeing him as just another man, seeing him as God's child also, and that we could, yeah, we could spiritually be brothers.

33:15

He's still my father.

I still give him all the respect a father deserves, but spiritually he's my brother.

That really healed our relationship.

Whereas I never really needed that healing with my mom until she got divorced from my dad.

And now all of a sudden, I felt like she did something to me.

And like, you broke my family.

33:32

You tore us apart.

And the reality was like, it takes two hands to clap.

Like they had a relationship together and it was time for it to dissolve and to become something else.

And I've learned to forgive that.

But that that process with my mom happened at a much later stage where now I just go, oh, that's that's Michelle.

33:51

She's my spiritual sister.

And I'm going to come along for the journey and occasionally I might cross the line and telling her like, hey, I just don't need you to hear this, But usually I just give her her space to do what she needs to do.

And it's brought me so much peace and I think it's brought us closer and in a mature, adult way and really grateful for.

34:09

That's that's fantastic.

And that also brings up the divorce things.

My parents, it's just kind of the opposite.

So my parents got divorced when I was like 6.

And it was a very nasty, traumatic divorce.

But because it was almost like my mom was being kept from me in a lot of ways, that made me want to be closer to my mom more and more.

34:32

And I think that's kind of, I think that being the foundation of our relationship.

Really, it just, I don't know.

Is there something like extra special of like every moment now is really, really important, which, yeah, I don't know, I think it's pretty cool.

34:48

But I also think it's, it's really cool that you're able to have, you're able to learn because not everyone is able to learn how to deal with their parents like that.

And I've seen that over the years as people react, respond and react so differently to their parents.

And a lot of people even our age are it's kind of like rude to your brother.

35:06

Like you just they're like kids still.

And it's like, what?

I don't know that's confusing.

I think there's a a layer in the nuance to the relationship and my my therapist helped me with this where he said what a baby needs is very different than what a young child needs or a maturing child or a teenager or an adult child.

35:27

And just as hard as it is for that person to identify their needs changing, it's even harder for a parent to understand those needs are changing.

And so the more compassion and empathy I've been able to have for my parents that they've never had a son who's 30 year old until now.

35:42

So they're trying to figure out how do you show up for that?

That's true.

And I think being able to see that part of them is you've been super helpful.

Yeah, I want to bounce off that.

My dad told me when we were having a really tough time, and this was like a year ago, he was being very vulnerable and he was really confused about how our relationship with me and my sister was kind of falling apart.

36:04

And he said that he had to take a step back and realize that, like, me and my sister aren't the same person.

Kind of like he like packaged us together.

Like I don't know how to explain it.

Like he just, it's like if I'm good with Cole, I'm good with Bailey and it's just these are my kids.

36:26

And he had to start seeing us as individual adults.

And for him to say that to me because I had to see him like that.

But for him to say that to me, that was pretty like, well, yeah, I'm fucking 30, of course.

And then thinking back how he had me when he was 23 and I'm 30, and that's just a crazy concept.

36:46

So it also makes me forgive him for things.

And same with my mom.

She was just a young kid when all these crazy decisions were made and there's all this trauma for me.

But looking back now, I'm like, yeah, time moves really quick, so.

Well, that's a beautiful perspective.

37:02

I know we've done a lot on your podcast, done a lot on mine.

We had a great conversation before we even start filming.

Yes, we did.

I always like to ask my questions at the end of our podcast.

If you could meet anyone, who would it be and why?

37:18

Eat anyone?

God, that sounds so shitty, but I don't have.

I'm going to answer you, but I I don't like, look up to people any anymore.

Maybe I used to as like a kid, but I think as you kind of like what we're talking about.

37:37

It's like you realize everyone's just a human.

Everyone makes all these mistakes, so I don't think about people like that.

I don't ever think about this.

So if I had to pick someone, the first person that comes to mind was Rick Rubin.

37:53

I think he would be a fabulous ironically, just because he's so smart and so knowledgeable as an artist and every time I hear him speak, he just sounds so like Zen and something that being, I don't know how old he is, maybe 60 or 50 something, but he's been in this game for so long that that is something to look up to someone who is an artist who is at peace, who's been high.

38:21

I'm sure he's been really low.

I don't even know his story, but he is someone that I would, I would love to love to meet.

That's beautiful.

Yeah.

I think that I'll kind of finish with this.

Yeah.

Because I think you said something interesting.

Yeah, As you've come to see people as people, you stop really, you know, putting them on pedestals or or like wanting to look up to somebody.

38:43

I have this interesting way of there's some people who come into my life through, you know, the periphery where I go.

Yeah, I'm down with that person and I'll stick with them through whatever.

Whether or not I've learned all the details about them.

I'm not.

I don't become like a fanatic of theirs.

38:58

I can't list an Almanac.

Facts like Rick Rubin is one of those guys where when I heard him tell a story about what inspired him to grow his beard, it was really, he just decided to let go of shaving.

And it wasn't about him trying to create something.

It was just I'm letting go of something and it it clicked for me and I was like one day when I'm ready to let go of shaving like and I've let that I've let go of.

39:20

Shades from my Gruen.

Yeah, I mean, now I I trim the beard a little bit to kind of keep it tidy.

Yeah.

And I've trimmed the mustache because it's getting in the way of trumpet playing.

Looks good by.

The way.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

But that's awesome.

The reason I ask is because I hope we could put into the ether that maybe one day somehow you meet Rick Rubin.

39:36

That would be amazing and I would like to be there.

Yeah, I would.

I would invite you if that happens not in the first meeting, but.

Yeah, the second you gotta, you gotta, you know, ease into the you can't bring too many Reubens into the room at once.

Exactly.

I'll tell The Beer Store, though probably.

Probably like.

That it'll it'll do well.

So this has been wonderful, yes.

39:53

If you haven't already in the description there's going to be the Asian chicken salad link.

There's going to be a link probably to Kohl's YouTube channel and.

General Cole.

Connor with an OR.

I'm not the gay porn star, though, I'm the other.

He's the other Cole Connor.

Hey, but if you're into that, maybe check out the other Cole Connor No.

40:11

Yeah, no judgment here at the Much Love podcast.

And also while we're on the subject, check out Rick Rubens podcast.

I started listening to the one with Jack Johnson.

Two of my favorite people just kind of colliding.

What's the name of it?

Because I don't.

Even know it's something with a T It's like Tetra Bippity Boppity Pudding Poppity.

40:29

But it's got an orange cover.

Okay.

And if you look up Rick Rubin on Spotify or YouTube, you'll find his podcast.

This is wonderful, dude.

Thanks.

Much love, Cole.

Yeah, much love to everybody at home.

Much love.